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Anyone want to give me ideas about ameliorating mercury symptoms

Discussion in 'Detox: Methylation; B12; Glutathione; Chelation' started by Vegas, Apr 19, 2011.

  1. Vegas

    Vegas Senior Member

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    I just had all my amalgams removed during the past 30 days. This was done by an IAOMT dentist with standard precautions. Felt fine after the first three actually felt good, then three weeks later I had the remaining two removed. Three days or so after this was done, I started feeling dreadful. These symptoms are different than those precipitated by methylation supps. Lots of aches all over the body, somewhat more fatigue, some sweating and weakness, sort of flu-like, different headaches. Just very uncomfortable. I realize that many of these symptoms are familiar to PWCs, but this is a new thing. I'm not chelating, but I think the Zinc and Selenium may be contributing to this picture. Perhaps this is a typical reaction after the fillings are removed, but this has the makings of metal detox. Any thoughts about what to do now would be welcome.
  2. August59

    August59 Daughters High School Graduation

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    Have you ruled out an infection?
  3. Adster

    Adster Senior Member

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    Guessing you know about the Cutler Protocol for chelation?
  4. Vegas

    Vegas Senior Member

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    No, I hadn't considered that. I suppose I could get some blood work, but this is not typical of an infection. I'm actually feeling somewhat better this morning after an Epsom Salt Bath last night. It's not just that I am less achey, but my body is actively purging something---bile flow is in full effect. The liver is a wonderful organ when it works.
  5. Vegas

    Vegas Senior Member

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    Yes, but I have no personal experience with chelation. I concluded from the beginning that those people most likely to have set backs were either doing agressive metal chelation or intravenous glutathione, so I didn't get the fillings out until I was confident I had the physical reserve to do so. Apparently I still underestimated the impact. Mercury is some nasty stuff. I was contemplating starting some very, very low-dose, oral DMSA per Cutler. What are your observations and experiences with his protocol?
  6. Shellbell

    Shellbell Senior Member

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    Vegas, a friend of mine went throught the same thing last year that you are going through now. She was about 95% recovered from using a similar methylation protocol like Freddd's. She and her doctor thought she was strong enough to handle the amalgam removal. It turned out in the end she was. BUT, she got pretty sick for about 3 weeks and then starting to come out of her downturn. The good news is she is better than ever now.

    She continued with the methylation protocol following removal while her doctor did some acpuncture and adjustment work to keep her chi flowing which really helped calm things down for her. She did not do any chelation.

    Where she initially regretted having her amalgams removed because she got so sick, she is so happy now. Not only did she bounce back to her baseline of 95%, she had some ongoing issues resolved within a couple of months and to this day, haven't returned.

    I just thought I would share her experience.

    Shelly
  7. Vegas

    Vegas Senior Member

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    Shellbell,

    Thanks for sharing as I appreciate the anecdote at a time when I am looking for some semblance of predictability. It's an interesting journey, with so many unusual symptoms. I feel much better today, but I have strange pain in my head and neck and upper back. Sort of feels like someone is squeezing my head. Their have been those rare therapies/supplements that provided immediate improvement, but most times it seems I have had to pay a price before feeling better.
  8. xrunner

    xrunner Senior Member

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  9. Vegas

    Vegas Senior Member

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    Yes, Klinghardt's seems to know his stuff. A bit overwhelming though in terms of the crazy number of supplements. Thanks for the link, I hadn't see that before, particularly regarding all the options for detox.
  10. xrunner

    xrunner Senior Member

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    Yes that's my impression too. The idea is to find what suits you. If you have a metabolic problem say with HPU and consequently your body struggles to get mercury out of your system then his protocol is quite useful for this. For eg. my most recent blood tests say that glutathione, related detox enzymes and HPU are not an issue any longer for me but sod is. Biofilm also is an issue for me. So I focus on that and cherry pick some of his ideas. Some have worked well others less so. Unfortunately there's no clear roadmap to recovery for anybody.
  11. dannybex

    dannybex Senior Member

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    Personally, I'd do a lot of research on both Cutler and Klinghardt -- and even their opinions of each other -- before trying anything from either. I tend to favor Cutler, although he can be somewhat 'outspoken' to say the least.

    Klinghardt seems to be more salesman than doctor (giving seminars all around the country and teaching at the "Klinghardt Academy"), and is constantly pushing new supplements (all very expensive, some produced by companies he owns) and recommending some that others have found have set them back big time. Here's a link to a woman's blog who tried some of the things that he recommends:

    http://whatidontknow.net/blog/playing-with-fire/
  12. Freddd

    Freddd Senior Member

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    Hi Dan,

    Klinghardt seems to be more salesman than doctor (giving seminars all around the country and teaching at the "Klinghardt Academy"), and is constantly pushing new supplements (all very expensive, some produced by companies he owns)

    These would all be "flags" in looking at behaviors that are often accompanied by fraud or fraud-like behaviors. Finding fraud in a claims situation is relatively easy. PROVING fraud in a court of law is far more difficult. "Honest judge, it was my new secretary not familiar with the software accidentally resubmitting all of last years claims, 3 times. There is no way I could have done 500 EKGs on the same day". Putting in claims for "detox" is enough to raise the potential fraud flag all by itself and with all those other things piled on top he would be a prime candidate for investigation.
  13. anne_likes_red

    anne_likes_red Senior Member

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    For chelation strategies have you seen: http://www.medicalinsider.com/toxicity3.html ?

    I use the Medical Insider's site a lot and I never really get a "salesman" vibe from him. Perhaps you'll find some ideas there Vegas :)

    I personally used oral DMSA (not Cutler's protocol, I had a local intergrative doctor) and a whole lot of supporting minerals, vitamins etc. I came down with Mono towards the end of my chelation treatment and I never really registered any benefit from my amalgam replacement/chelation therapy because the Mono really knocked me down for a long, long time!
    I re-started methylation supplements a couple of months ago, with more supporting co-factors than when I started a couple of years back. I'm tolerating them relatively well, which makes me think maybe my chelation was more successful than I realised?
  14. xrunner

    xrunner Senior Member

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    Freddd and dannybex
    I usually post/talk about things of which I have had direct personal experience. As a rule I do not talk about things of which I know little or nothing.
    If we all did this, our posts would better serve other sufferers.

    Since you seemed to ignore the contest of my previous post I will rephrase it.
    I quoted Klinghardt because:
    a) having tried a lot of things over the years and spent a lot of $$, I know those who sell rubbish from those who have some substance even if they charge for it, which happens to be the way things are on planet earth.
    b) Without being a patient of Dr Klinghardt or paying any money to him directly or indirectly, I have benefited from many of his suggestions, including ART, ideas on antimicrobials and HPU.
    d) He's probably one of the few practitioners who has view of what's wrong with CFS which is closest to mine and my experience.
    e) Going back to the mercury issue, which was the reason I mentioned his protocol, he's one of the few drs who links problems with detoxifying mercury to methylation and HPU (or Hemopyrrollactamuria). And the protocol for overcoming this condition is based on certain basic nutrients that one can buy from any health food store.
    Freddd, I couldn't follow your off the tangent reference to fraud. Here, nobody is trying to sell anything to anybody. Please do your own research before talking about things of which just heard about.

    I agree though that we all should always do our own research, I mean proper research.
    Except, Dan, that quoting an article written by some woman (who's she?) is that kind of shallow internet research that doesn't help anybody.
    Stating that she's tried some of the things suggested by Dr Klinghardt is taking things out of context and misleading. She wasn't on any specific protocol but seems to have tried (in diy fashion) some of the heavy metals chelating agents used by many practitioners.
    And it shows that you've got no clue about the protocol since (if you cared to read carefully the presentation you'd know) there are clear stages, different things and clear warnings, in order to avoid the some of the problems that lady experienced.
  15. dannybex

    dannybex Senior Member

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    Well, I meant no disrespect to you -- was just trying to point out some warnings regarding certain things he recommends and the reactions some people have experienced. It should be noted that Klinghardt has no studies backing up his research in humans...no 'proper' research as you call it. I've emailed the author of that blog, and have read many, many similar stories like hers.

    And I'll admit that Cutler isn't perfect either. As I said before, very outspoken, and sometimes contradictory. He does at least seem to have a lot more people who have successfully chelated. One thing Cutler does do is detail those "clear stages" and "clear warnings" that help people avoid the problems KD experienced. She didn't know of these issues until she came across Cutler's work, for which he got his PhD.

    BTW, I went to a doctor who was trained by Klinghardt, and used ART testing for over 2 years. During that 2 year period, my health deteriorated significantly.

    But if it's worked for you, that's great -- I'm truly happy for you. Was just posting my two cents.
  16. Freddd

    Freddd Senior Member

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    Hi Xrunner,

    I wasn't suggesting that he was engaging in fraud, merely that he might set off some of the warning systems. I worked as a software designer and consultant in the group health business for more than 20 years. Part of my job was helping detect providers that did things like those who did engage in fraud. Having some of the same characteristics doesn't mean that there is any fraud, only that the claims from that provider are going to be looked at more closely. I will tell you that anything at all about mercury "detox" is going to set off alarms, or at least did, and that is no secret. As far as I know it is still controversial and "experimental". I didn't make the claims rules that the software enforces. I was only involved translating the rules into code and in data mining, looking for patterns. Different plans had different rules.

    Truthfully, I had never heard of Klinghardt until you mentioned him and I have never read any of his things until now. I was basing what I said entirely upon what was said here, and I was very specific quoting the things that are the flags. The more of his writings I read the scarier he looks.

    Looking at the amount of NAC and glutathione he is suggesting in the PDF you linked he is going to cause acute folate deficiency and b12 deficiency in his patients, preventing re-establishment of methylation cycle and perpetuating hypersensitivity reactions to all sorts of things and causing "detox" symptoms. His protocol will be sheer poison to a lot of people. I would say that his protocol is outright dangerous. It will cause or sustain the very things he claims to be treating. Also, without ruling out folic acid and folinic acid he is risking causing paradoxical folate deficiency in an unknown percentage, but possibly 20% or so, of patients. As these patients are demonstrating hypersensitivity to various toxins, chemicals, foods etc of the sort induced by mb12 and methylfolate deficiencies in the first place there is possibly an increased probability of a selection for paradoxical folate deficiency in the first place.
  17. Vegas

    Vegas Senior Member

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    Just wanted to post a quick note for those with possible mercury toxicity. It has now been a month since I had the remaining amalgams removed, and I have to say it has been very positive experience. Aside from that especially uncomfortable period about three days out from the second and final phase of getting the fillings removed, I have experienced fairly steady improvement. There has been some very heavy brain fog at times, to the point that I didn't feel comfortable driving, but this has been intermittent. My fatigue has improved a fair amount and my temperature has risen as well. For me, one of the tell tale signs of improvement relates to how often my hands turn cold as I push my energy envelope and my body compensates for the cortisol shortfall by producing epinephrine. This has continued to improve. It appears as if a new phase of heavy metal detox was precipitated by the removal of the fillings and to a lesser degree supplementation with zinc, and possibly selenium. Here is my description of metal detox symptoms: it comes at you in waves, intermittent periods of brain fog, a pressure sensation in the eyes, burning eyes, a pressures sensation in the head, increased b/m & bile, decreased urination in the context of high fluid intake. I am going to correlate these symptoms to those associated with DMSA supplementation, when I start this in a bit.
  18. powertool4

    powertool4

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    That's great! Yes, i've heard that the improvements from amalgam removal (done properly) can take months.
    Were you given oxygen and a dental dam with coldwater suction during your protocol?
  19. Vegas

    Vegas Senior Member

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    Yes, I think in those with mercury toxicity, there is strong anecdotal...

    evidence to support that improvement will take some time. Actually, I think a pattern of worsening (if there is some significant exposure) followed by improvement, then worsening, and finally steady improvement (without regression) is likely--assuming other variables don't come into play. I think it is important to understand just how volatile mercury detox and honestly any sort of detox can be. For me the exposure symptoms were minimal but the subsequent excretion from organs, which one has little control over short of chelating to reduce blood concentrations, has taken me for a bit of a bumpy ride. Still very tolerable, however, and easier to handle now having the belief that this (chelation) is what is going to allow me to fully recover.

    Supplemental Oxygen yes. Rubber Dam, no as my dentist who is IAOMT certified and has been doing amalgam free dentistry since the 80's said this was not effective. Not sure about the suction as they stuck a bunch of tubes in my mouth. They also had some sort of special air filtration system in the room.

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