New era for ME/CFS research as top cytokine study attracts media headlines
The immune systems of patients who have recently developed ME/CFS look markedly different from those who have been ill for much longer, according to a major new study from Drs. Ian Lipkin and Mady Hornig at Columbia University. This shift in immune function hadn’t been seen before.
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Anyone use NTFactor?

Discussion in 'General Treatment' started by roxie60, Apr 11, 2014.

  1. roxie60

    roxie60 Senior Member

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  2. Cheesus

    Cheesus Senior Member

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    I have just started on NT Factor Lipids Powder (the pure powder without all the stuff in). I've only been taking it a week so it's way too early to tell. Here is a recent thread where it is discussed at length.
     
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  3. JT1024

    JT1024 Senior Member

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    I have used it in the past and I believe it had benefit. Continuing to obtain and take the multitude of supplements has become overwhelming to me.

    I have been taking LifePak Nano's to reduce the sheer number of supplements I take. They are not cheap and my compliance isn't great either.
     
  4. roxie60

    roxie60 Senior Member

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    I ordered propax gold. Very expensive. For this amount of money expecting miracle. Also suppose to start antibiotics for mycoplasma and anaplama infections. I have had a deteriorating couple of weeks, not well enough to even drive to grocery store, planned yo go at least 4 times this week.
     
  5. roxie60

    roxie60 Senior Member

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    I know what you mean JT. So many meds, so many supplement s, on my counter tops, in my cupboards, in boxes. Someone who pre mystery illness occasionally took advil or aleve for headaches and occasional otc for allergies. Did not even take vitamins. I am at a loss to know what to do to restore my health. I have put trust in many doctors over ten years and the result is loss on so many levels (health, friends, career, financial, self confidence, hope for my future). At all time low and try to remain hopeful and faithful like Job but I feel I am failing. Want so bad to be better, to live life.
     
  6. Hip

    Hip Senior Member

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    I had some side effects from NT factor: I starting a regimen of 3 scoops (= 3 x 1.4 grams) daily of the NT Factor EnergyLipids Powder.

    On the second day of this regimen, although it caused my sleep to be a little restless, on waking up I noticed some general improvements from the NT Factor: I felt more calm, more content, and I felt like I was moving away from the ME/CFS of mind, and towards the normal state of mind I used to have before I developed ME/CFS. I felt more sociable and talkative than usual, for one thing, and my sound sensitivity was much reduced. So I was quite optimistic that NT Factor was already working.

    However, on waking up on the third day of taking this NT factor regimen, I felt much worse than normal: I felt an increased in mental numbness, and I felt pretty "spaced out" and unable to focus well mentally. Furthermore, my sound sensitivity and general sensitivity to stimuli were increased, and I found sounds and visual stimuli sort of strangely jolted my mind in a mildly perturbing manner, in a way that reminded me a bit of the anxiety psychosis states I used to get several years ago. I have not experienced this anxiety psychosis for a few years now, but anything that evokes these horrible anxiety psychosis states I treat with great caution. I also felt much less sociable. I generally was in an unpleasant and weird state on the third day.

    I then stopped taking NT Factor for a week, and then restarted at a lower dose of 1 scoop per day. I also took lots of antioxidants at the same time, because I theorized that this bad reaction I experienced from NT Factor might be due to the lipids in NT Factor being damaged by the high state of oxidative stress thought to exist in ME/CFS. Dr Cheney thinks that ME/CFS involves a state of chronic oxygen toxicity. See my post here for more details.

    This oxidative stress in the body and brain may be oxidizing these phosphoglycolipids in NT Factor before they can get to work. I understand that some oxidized lipids can be toxic and neurotoxic.

    At this lower dose, and with the antioxidants, the bad side effects of NT Factor have mostly disappeared, although I still have mild increases in sound sensitivity and general sensitivity to stimuli. I have only been on this lower dose regimen for a few days now, so I cannot comment yet on its long term benefits.
     
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  7. roxie60

    roxie60 Senior Member

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    Thank you Hip for sharing your experience and dose adjustment. Reminds me to start careful.
     
    Hip likes this.
  8. Little Bluestem

    Little Bluestem Senescent on the Illinois prairie, USA

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    My dr. recommended NT Factor, but I am having difficulty finding any.

    @Cheesus , Who makes the NT Factor Lipids Powder that you take?

    @Hip, Keep us posted on you continuing experience with the NT Factor. (I'm assuming you are taking the same thing that Cheesus it.)
     
  9. Cheesus

    Cheesus Senior Member

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    @Little Bluestem Nutricology which I ordered from iHerb, though I think you can get it cheaper on Amazon if you are in the US. For us Brits it is extremely expensive to get domestically and even with a large import duty it still works out cheaper from iHerb.
     
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  10. roxie60

    roxie60 Senior Member

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    @Little Bluestem I order propax gold. If you google that you will likely find the other products as well. Or goto the link in my first post in this thread there are hyper links to the products.
     
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  11. adreno

    adreno on the beach

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    @Hip I think those side effects are probably due to the high levels of choline in the phospholipids. High choline intake seems to cause the same problems for me.
     
  12. Hip

    Hip Senior Member

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    Thanks for the suggestion, though in my case I don't seem to have any trouble with choline, and in fact I usually take 1000 mg of choline bitartrate daily (as I find it has mild anti-anxiety and antidepressant effects). I also often take phosphatidylcholine from 1200 mg of lecithin.

    It's not the phosphatidylserine either, because I take 400 mg of that daily too.

    The ingredients of NT Factor are:
    Phosphatidic acid (PA)
    Phosphatidyl-choline (PC)
    Phosphatidyl-ethanolamine (PE)
    Phosphatidyl-glycerol (PG)
    Phosphatidyl-inositol (PI)
    Phosphatidyl-serine (PS)
    Digalactosyldiacylglyceride (DGDG)
    Monoglactosyldiacylglyceride (MGDG)
    Boron (sodium borate)

    So one or more of these ingredients (excluding the PC and PS) must be causing the side effects I experienced.
     
  13. adreno

    adreno on the beach

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    But I believe all of those are present in regular lecithin as well.
     
  14. Hip

    Hip Senior Member

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    Presumably not to the same quantity, otherwise people could simply buy lecithin in place of the rather more expensive NT Factor.
     
  15. adreno

    adreno on the beach

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    Dry lecithin granules do not contain glycophospholipids, but liquid lecithin oil does. Other than that, I haven't seen anything to convince me that NT factor is any better than lecithin capsules.
     
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  16. Hip

    Hip Senior Member

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  17. adreno

    adreno on the beach

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    Yes, I saw those. I guess you are more easily impressed than me.

    There are no controls in those studies, and measures of fatigue are subjective. There is no comparison with regular lecithin. And the NT factor product they used contains much more than just lipids, which seriously confounds the studies.
     
  18. Hip

    Hip Senior Member

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    They are just fairly basic studies on the efficacy of protocols using NT Factor for ME/CFS, hinting that NT Factor may be beneficial for ME/CFS. A few glowing reports about NT Factor on this forum also suggest it may be beneficial.

    That's good enough for me to try out a supplement.

    In my tests, I found there is a difference between NT Factor and lecithin capsules, and so these are not equivalent. I have taken lecithin capsules (and lecithin granules) on numerous occasions, and at high doses, and never had the effects from them that I got from NT Factor.
     
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  19. Sidereal

    Sidereal Senior Member

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    I am wondering about this too. I have been taking the NT Factor for a week now and I am experiencing a definite increase in brain fog. It could of course be a coincidence.

    By the way, here's an old post from Rich on the matter:

    Recently, @Vegas has talked about phospholipid supplementation on the resistant starch thread. I'm tagging him in case he'd like to comment.
     
  20. Hip

    Hip Senior Member

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    That is interesting, @Sidereal.

    If glutathione is needed to protect these NT Factor phosphoglycolipids from peroxidation, perhaps glutathione supplementation as well as supplements like undenatured whey protein and N-acetyl-cysteine which raise intracellular glutathione would be a good thing to take alongside NT Factor.

    I am currently taking Q10 200 mg, astaxanthin 12 mg, vitamin E 400 mg, grape seed extract 500 mg and N-acetyl-carnitine 500 mg as my antioxidants alongside NT Factor, but perhaps intracellular glutathione boosting is more important when it comes to quenching the reactive oxygen species created by mitochondria.

    I was trying to find a good article on the best set of antioxidant supplements to take to protect against reactive oxygen species generated by mitochondria, but could not find one.
     

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