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In Brief: The Adrenal Glands and ME
The second in a new series of ‘In Brief’ articles, where Andrew Gladman provides a helpful insight into the science behind fairly common topics, exploring how they relate to ME/CFS. This time he discusses the adrenal glands and why they can be such a talking point ...
Discuss the article on the Forums.

Anyone tried Glycyrrhizin

Discussion in 'Antivirals, Antibiotics and Immune Modulators' started by Frickly, Oct 26, 2009.

  1. August59

    August59 Daughters High School Graduation

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    Frickly - Have you ever had your neck examined orthopedically or had an MRI done? Reason I'm asking is that there used to be a orthopedic surgeon a few years ago that I think was in Charlotte, NC, then moved to Asheville, NC. I believe his name was Dr. Rosner (doesn't have his license anymore though). Quick note on the North Carolina Medical Board - they are very narrow minded have caused much more harm than good. This orthopedic surgeon had a few patients that had CFIDS, but they also had severe cervical spinal stenosis and/or Chari malformations. The surgeon performed some type of surgery to relieve pressure on spinal cord, sympathetic and parasympathetic ganglion nerves and even removed any bone spurs that encroached on the arteries/veins. He even had written a paper on the subject. The subject being that about 70% of the patients that had the orthopedic problem and had CFIDS (I believe fibromyalgia was included in this too) as well became drastically improved in their orthopedic symptoms, but there CFIDS/Fibro symptoms as well. His thought was that encroachment on the sympathetic and parasympathetic nervous systems were hindering the ability of a lot of organs to work properly. It was just an observation he had and once he had written the paper the medical board put him on trial so to speak claiming that he was doing unnecessary surgery and doing it for a disease that was phyciatric in nature (I hate this word) and they took his medical license from him. The patients even witnessed in front of the board that they were going to have the surgery anyway, but no luck.
    This same board took the license of a prominent lymes doctor a few years ago, but he moved to South Carolina and resumed his practice, but doctors around here would basically not treat Lymes and send them to se him - Dr. Jemsek(?) www.jemsekspecialty.com (interesting reading)
    I'm not saying by any means that you need neck surgery, but I have severe stenosis (diameter C4, C5, C6 is 6mm) by doing some minor stretching and light traction plus chiropractic work I do get relief some relief from my CFS problems.
    I hate to see you in so much pain and I know how it feels and I hope you get better soon.
  2. Frickly

    Frickly Senior Member

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    Thanks,

    August, I have read somewhere that many CFSers have neck pain...very interesting. Fortunately, my pain is almost completely gone, with the help of some anti inflammitories. Also, I feel fantastic! I have more energy than my husband or sister and got out all the Christmas decorations yesterday. I don't know why it took my doctor so long to recommend this injection.

    Ross, thanks, I only take it once per week.

    Perovyscus, I had to scroll down three times to remember how to spell your name. :eek: Thats very interesting. I wish I would have known about this long ago. I am going to have my sister try your test. I suspect she has CFS as well.
  3. Cloud

    Cloud Guest

    Sorry, should have read the whole thread......I didn't realize you were talking about the parenteral form. I was unaware it being used in this way. Interesting....;)
  4. Solon

    Solon Guest

    Licorice will slow down cortisol metabolism and derange your negative feedback response, many years later you might end up with very serious hard to reverse adrenal suppression. All those supplements, like licorice, hydrocortisone, pregnenolone, dhea,armour, progesterone*,testosterone* are for patching up reasons. That is if your organism is too wacked and you cannot produce any thing properly or your hypothalamus is so low in afferent signals or completely skewed from normal feedback signals you take those hormones/supplements to survive but you have to live on them for the rest of your life. (with exception of testosterone that can have some BDNF-like properties and regrow some of your exhausted neurotransmitters)

    In case one has adrenal fatigue/down or disregulated HPA system response is a more accurate term, you need to give your body complete and proper rest, stay away from stress or anything that can exhaust afferent signals to the amygdala, hypothalamus and other crucial areas of the limbic system and then after months or even some years of refraining from stressful activities if you have evidently not recovered you have to try a strong stimulant to get your system back to working balance.
    That is because in many cases HPA function remains functionally low but in reality the potential to recover exists and the stimulant will increase the LC-Noradrenaline-sympathetic pathway to bring adrenal output back in good levels.
    Its a long and difficult process but it is possible to get back to normal. Proper feedback along with adequate afferent and efferent signals to and from the hypothalamus are the keys to restore your HPA not hormones or glycchiriza

    Some say that taking cortisol or licorice can give the adrenals a rest and they can built back but this is NOT true, believe me it just atrophies them. So do antidepressants if taken for longer than the initial 2-3 months of early adrenal fatigue, since the way (nonviral/nontoxic, thats a different game there) adrenal fatigue ensues is through excess stress, either physical or mental, which lower genital hormone production and leaves the adrenal response solely to calm down noradrenaline stress signals.

    Thus initially you can halter this excess noradrenaline signals and prevent further downregulation of the stress system with calmatives (be careful of the type) antidepressants or benzos in some cases, which can also signal BDNFactors in the long term. YOu can also try thyroid hormones and some testosterone/progesterones to make you feel better while on ADs but if this inital stage is well overgone, and you have full blown adrenal fatigue then ONLY rest rest rest and proper (with respect to glycemic index) nutrition can help and every 3 to 6 months some strong stimulus. Its a difficult game and you need PROPER medical support but it is possible to get better
  5. Frickly

    Frickly Senior Member

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    Thanks Solon, It has become clear over the holidays that I cannot handle any stress whatsoever.....I don't think it is possible to avoid stress as there are situations in my life that are difficult and cannot be changed. I do need to learn to deal with them better. I have been taking a combination of herbs called calmplex 2000 that is helping alot with my anxiety but am sure it will stop working eventually.

    I am under the care of a good doctor. I am taking the glycchiriza to combat the EBV and because I had terrible chest pains on a prescribed anti viral due to a possible allergic reaction. I am hoping I can get the EBV under control and then stop the injections but do wonder if it will just keep coming back.

    I will have to read over your post a few times and get out the dictionary.:eek: I am really tired of this roller coaster and want to get off now. I am not a religous person but am thinking of taking up prayer. Thanks for your response and I hope the new year brings us all answers and improved health.
  6. leaves

    leaves Senior Member

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    Hey Frickly, just a quick note on your numbness. Got that too, may suggest nerve damage, taking massive doses of sublingual methyl b12 helps for me. At least now its gone.
  7. Frickly

    Frickly Senior Member

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    Thanks leaves....I have seen a neurologist and had an EMG and nerve conduction velocity (NCV) test. This was very uncomfortable and, of course, the tests came back negative for any nerve damage. However, I don't put much stock in tests for reasons I am sure you understand. For the most part my numbness has been lessened by my antibiotics. However, I still have issues with it on occassion. I will have to experiement with the b12 when I have a bad day and see how it goes.

    Take care,
  8. Dreambirdie

    Dreambirdie work in progress

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    In my experience, this is very extreme, and mostly inaccurate. (my bolds above.)

    There is a VERY BIG DIFFERENCE between herbs and hormones.
    And another big difference between the sex hormones and those that control metabolism (like HC and thyroid hormones).
    And a third big difference between the sex hormones themselves.

    There are many reasons for hormone imbalances, which need to be explored with a really knowledgeable practitioner, who can assess WHY they are out of balance for a particular individual, and HOW they are out of balance. The causes are multitudinous, with stress being the end result, not the primary causative factor.

    REST is often NOT ENOUGH to heal the adrenals, especially with CFS. (That is old news.)

    And taking stimulants is really ill advised (holy be-jeezus! :eek:) for someone with adrenal fatigue. :eek::eek::eek:

    Many people do REALLY WELL taking licorice, with absolutely no adverse effects, while others do not. It definitely is not known to "DERANGE your negative feedback loop"--whatever that means. :eek::eek::confused: Or to cause "hard to reverse adrenal suppression." The one MAJOR contra-indication for licorice is high blood pressure. If you have a tendency toward high b.p. you should NOT take it.

    Lastly, people can and do successfully go on and wean off hormones and supplements all the time. Just because you use licorice for a few months or a few years, does NOT mean you will need to be on it for life! That is just plain WRONG.

    That's why it's really important NOT to generalize, to see each individual case as unique, to investigate thoroughly before making decisions for a treatment plan, to TRUST a given person's response and work with it, and to be FLEXIBLE with treatment options.
  9. cfs since 1998

    cfs since 1998 *****

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    I was on Licorice, DHEA, and a few other "adrenal" supplements for awhile. I have to say that I really felt a moderate but definite improvement on them, although once I had improved a certain amount it was like I hit a barrier and could not go further. I bet CFS has an adrenal fatigue component but the adrenal component is secondary to the real cause. I stopped that to pursue an antiviral protocol but I'm thinking of going on back on the adrenal stuff. The only problem is that it tended to cause me anxiety and I had to take adaptogens to counteract that, so I'm thinking of taking them only three days per week (e.g. MWF).

    When I stopped them I certainly didn't feel worse than I did before, so I don't believe the negative feedback thing--that happens with high doses of artificial cortisone, not licorice. But the improvements I had made while on them disappeared pretty quickly.

    Also, and this is for Solon... licorice really has two uses. When taken orally it boosts cortisol by recycling the cortisol you already make, and when taken as an injection it seems to be a pretty decent antiviral. Both uses can be helpful in CFS.

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