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anyone know what these neurotransmitter test results mean (urine test)

Discussion in 'Diagnostic Guidelines and Laboratory Testing' started by Navid, Aug 13, 2011.

  1. Navid

    Navid Senior Member

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    epinephrine 6.8 low
    noreinephrine 19.4 low
    dopamine 177.8 elevated
    glycine 1665.6 elevated
    glutamate 49 elevated
    pea 82.4 elevated

    thanks for any and all input.

    regards, navid
     
  2. heapsreal

    heapsreal iherb 10% discount code OPA989,

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    didnt even know they did this sort of testing, but what seems to be missing is serotonin which would also be interesting. I think all these neurotransmitter levels would be variable depending on the time if the day. Maybe a 4 times a day cortisol/dhea saliva test could also be of value and go hand in hand with the other testing. Can i ask what you and your doc are trying to achieve with this sort of testing eg was it done for poor sleep or low energy and to maybe find a drug to suit more of your needs then to just trial and see type prescribing etc?

    cheers!!!
     
  3. rlc

    rlc Senior Member

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    Hi navid I found this for you which might help

    High Levels
    Dopamine levels above 400mcg in a 24-hour urine collection are considered high, according to laboratory standards published by MedlinePlus. Conditions that can cause these high levels include rare neurological cancers, adrenal gland tumors and extreme stress and anxiety. A blood dopamine level higher than 30 picogram per milliliter, pg/mL, is considered high, according to laboratory standards published by Cigna. This degree of elevation can be detected with a single blood test and does not require 24 hours to collect. Trauma, surgery, major burns and sepsis can cause high levels in a blood test
    http://www.livestrong.com/article/254644-what-are-abnormal-dopamine-levels/

    Because your epinephrine and norepineprine are low it means that the high dopamine isnt caused by stress and anxiety, because they go higher under stress. So Id say you should probably be wanting to make sure that you get checked out properly for neurological cancers and adrenal gland tumors
    epinephrine, norepineprine are produced in the medulla part of the adrenal gland

    theres more information on the catecholmines test here

    http://www.cigna.com/healthinfo/hw6078.html

    http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/ency/article/003613.htm

    Sorry cant find a lot of information on the net, but hopefully this will be of some use to you

    All the best
     
  4. Valentijn

    Valentijn Activity Level: 3

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    I also got results recently and would love any thoughts on how they relate to glutathione:

    SUBSTANCE - LEVEL (NORMAL RANGE)
    DHEA - 324.0 (33.0-496.1)
    Epinephrine - 7.7 (7-12)
    Norpepinephrine - 29.5 (30-45) LOW
    Dopamine - 171.5 (115-175)
    Serotonin - 133.1 (120-185)
    Glycine - 1,570.0 (455-980) HIGH
    GABA - 6.8 (4.7-7.0)
    Glutamate - 43.3 (15-32) HIGH
    PEA - 35.3 (30-70)
    Histamine - 18.6 (14-24)
    Creatinine - 125.2 (28.0-259.0)

    Low cortisol in the morning, staying pretty steady, and ending higher than it should.

    From what I've read online (including a richvank document on the wiki), the elevated glycine and glutamate we both have are pretty interesting because they are two of the three components of glutathione. I also had high homocysteine in the past (5 years ago), which is a precursor of cysteine, the third component. Could this reflect that my underlying problem is a trouble converting homocysteine to cysteine, thereby interfering with glutathione production and causing those three to become elevated as they get "backed up" in the body?

    Navid's values seem quite similar to mine, albeit his are a bit more extreme, aside from my PEA being pretty normal.

    My doc had me start a couple supplements for my values, including taurine, 5-hydroxtryptophan, L-theanine, N-acetylcysteine, and alpha-lipoic acid. Included are co-factors, the most notable of which might be B-6, since I haven't specifically supplemented that before, and I think it's involved in processing homocysteine (along with folate and B12).

    Something in the supplements is making a huge impact on my circulatory problems - no more light-headedness, even when standing in the kitchen for over an hour, etc, no freezing cold feet, no need to lie down a couple times per day. I'm still limited in muscle use though.
     
  5. richvank

    richvank Senior Member

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    Hi, navid.

    Looks like you are having difficulty converting dopamine to norepinephrine and epinephrine. This could be caused by a deficiency in vitamin C (ascorbate) or copper, both of which are needed for the conversion. Your glycine and glutamate are high, which could mean that you are having difficulty synthesizing glutathione because of a depletion of cysteine, which is usually the rate-limiting amino acid for the synthesis of glutathione. Low cysteine could be associated with a partial block in your methylation cycle. Most people with ME/CFS appear to have this block, and it is associated with glutathione depletion. Note that a deficiency in ascorbate is often associated with glutathione depletion, because ascorbate is normally recycled by glutathione when it becomes oxidized. Treatment for this is discussed elsewhere in the forums. If you want to read my papers about this, they are in the general Wiki pages. Click on Wiki at the top of this page.

    Best regards,

    Rich
     
  6. richvank

    richvank Senior Member

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    Hi, Valentijn.

    I think your analysis is probably correct. B6 and magnesium are needed for the enzymes in the transsulfuration pathway, which converts homocysteine to cysteine, which in turn is usually the rate-limiting amino acid for the synthesis of glutathione. If glutathione is depleted, it can lead to depletion of vitamin C, also, and that is needed to convert dopamine to norepinephrine. I'm guessing that you are right about the B6 being responsible for your improvements. It makes sense to me, at least.

    Rich
     
  7. Valentijn

    Valentijn Activity Level: 3

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    Great, thanks so much for your analyses (analysises?)!
     
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  8. typogal65

    typogal65

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    I need help what does this mean any ideas. I was told high Glutamate and PEA means gastro issues. Is this true?



    SUBSTANCE - LEVEL (NORMAL RANGE)
    DHEA - 324.0 (33.0-496.1)
    Epinephrine - 6.8 (7-12) LOW
    Norepinephrine - 36.1 (30-45)
    Dopamine - 144.4 (115-175)
    Serotonin - 134.8 (120-185)
    GABA - 6.2 (4.7-7.0)
    Glutamate - 46.0 (15-32) HIGH
    PEA - 95.4 (30-70) HIGH
     
  9. dannybex

    dannybex Senior Member

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    @Valentijn -- five years later(!) -- wondering if you came to the conclusion that it was b6 that was helping the circulation/cold feet issue?
     
  10. Valentijn

    Valentijn Activity Level: 3

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    It was a temporary improvement, albeit fairly dramatic. It slowly disappeared over the following month or two. I still do better with a B multi, I need magnesium for muscle twitches, and I do better (wiredness) if I take 1800mg NAC every day.
     
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  11. dannybex

    dannybex Senior Member

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    Interesting @Valentijn. I'm just finally being able to tolerate small amounts of p5p, and have had blocks of ice for feet off and on for years, even pre-illness, so it caught my attention.

    Any negatives -- or other positives -- from the NAC?
     
  12. Valentijn

    Valentijn Activity Level: 3

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    It's supposed to help with lung infections, due to breaking down mucus. Some people report gut problems, but I haven't had that issue.
     
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  13. Loachi

    Loachi

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    It's indeed a mucus breaking down, old remedy, I dont think it's prescribed a lot anymore.
    But there are claims it improves Gluthatione ( Main Antioxidant ) production by providing a Cysteine source.
    Also claimed to be a methyl donor, and thus acting on conversion of homocysteine.
    Aiding on wiredness ?????, one of my big problems, I'll check my drawers, I'm sure I have some. I have taken 1200 a day for a while, long time ago. Did not experience any difference, but did not evaluate the wiredness as I did not expect it to have an effect there. Will re-add it to my stock for 2nd evaluation.
     
  14. Loachi

    Loachi

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    But most surprising of all !!!!!!!!!
    I am very surprised to see tests of Serotonin , and GABA ... Don't ask any test like that here.
    Besides they are not available here, I am also surprised they exist elsewhere, and have some doubts about them.
    If they really could test your Serotonin, they could evaluate if you need a SSRI or not.
    If they could test your GABA , they could evaluate if besides the SSRI you can use a bit Benzo's.
    I've never heard of a psy prescribing SSRI's based on Serotonin test.
    Besides Serotonin is made in the brain only and can't pass BloodBrainBarrier, so I would be very surprised if any test could really reflect the serotonin levels.
     

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