Anyone Know Their VO2Max?

[pemone]

Can you tell anything from my 1995 step-exercise test results that can be downloaded from this page?

I couldn't figure much out from that. What you want is VCO2 and VO2 at each step up in the exercise process. Ideally you want to know your pulse at each workload, and you want a calculation of RER = VCO2/VO2.

 

[MeSci]

I couldn't figure much out from that. What you want is VCO2 and VO2 at each step up in the exercise process. Ideally you want to know your pulse at each workload, and you want a calculation of RER = VCO2/VO2.

Oh well - too late for that one. Thanks.

 

[charlie1]

Last summer I did another 2 day CPET protocol, this time at the Ottawa Heart Institute. It was a trial run by Dr. B Hyde and Dr. Keller to see if they could get a 2 day CPET test procedure started here for ME/CFS patients.

Gamboa, do you know the outcome of that possibility? (the CPET testing being located in Ottawa)
Is the CPET the same as Vo2max testing?

 

[Valentijn]

Gamboa, do you know the outcome of that possibility? (the CPET testing being located in Ottawa)
Is the CPET the same as Vo2max testing?

CPET is a test which should include measuring VO2max (and other things).

 

[Noah GB]

I did a VO2max + lactate test the other day hoping to get a clue what my AT was. Both tests were conducted while walking and jogging on a threadmill. I suspect my lactate level reached 4 mmol/L long before 4 minutes had passed. Results:

• VO2max (couldn't reach it due to dizziness) at 07:30: 46.8 ml/kg/min. HR was at 204 bpm; FeO2 17.37.
• AT/VT reached at 02:30: 34.2 ml/Kg/min; HR 187 bpm; FeO2 16.80.
• AT/VT estimated HR 110-115 bpm

Not sure what the FeO2 is yet. I added these values here, along with AT/VT measured and estimated on february 25.

Lactate test. Actually, I did this one first.

• Lactate baseline 1.4 mmol/L (sitting): at 04:00 it had increased to 4.2 mmol/L while jogging at 7 km/h. HR was 174 bmp.
• Lactate levels increased to 9.7 mmol/L until the test ended at 13:00.

The VO2"max" value places me in the "good" category, indicating that my lungs are functioning well. The therapist who conducted the test suspected I was able to reach an even higher value, but something else stood in my way. I'm suspecting my POTS/ortostatic hypertension in combination with high levels of lactic acid, although the latter I barely noticed. I've always had a high threshold for pain and discomfort. What seemed to surprise the instructor was my body and face not gasping or looking worn out. Of course my partner PEM kicked in after an hour or so. I had a throbbing headache, my legs were awfully stiff, and I struggled to keep my neck and head up while doing research on my laptop. Day1 after the test I woke up with a stiff neck, fingers, underarms, legs, hips, etc. Along with a feeling of having been hit by a train. Day 2 (48 h later), which is today, is definitely the worst so far.

I'm contemplating doing another test of my lactate threshold, but this time measuring at baseline, 01:00, 02:00 and 03:00 too. Any comments on why I seem to be accumulating lactate, but have well functioning lungs?

 

[MeSci]

I did a VO2max + lactate test the other day hoping to get a clue what my AT was. Both tests were conducted while walking and jogging on a threadmill. I suspect my lactate level reached 4 mmol/L long before 4 minutes had passed. Results:

• VO2max (couldn't reach it due to dizziness) at 07:30: 46,8 ml/kg/min. HR was at 204 bpm.
• Lactate baseline 1,4 mmol/L: at 04:00 it had increased to 4,2 mmol/L while jogging at 7 km/h. HR was 174 bmp.
• Lactate levels increased to 9,7 mmol/L until the test ended at 13:00.

The VO2"max" value places me in the "good" category, indicating that my lungs are functioning well. The therapist who conducted the test suspected I was able to reach an even higher value, but something else stood in my way. I'm suspecting my POTS/ortostatic hypertension in combination with high levels of lactic acid, although the latter I barely noticed. I've always had a high threshold for pain and discomfort. What seemed to surprise the instructor was my body and face not gasping or looking worn out. Of course my partner PEM kicked in after an hour or so. I had a throbbing headache, my legs were awfully stiff, and I struggled to keep my neck and head up while doing research on my laptop. Day1 after the test I woke up with a stiff neck, fingers, underarms, legs, hips, etc. Along with a feeling of having been hit by a train. Day 2 (48 h later), which is today, is definitely the worst so far.

I'm contemplating doing another test of my lactate threshold, but this time measuring at baseline, 01:00, 02:00 and 03:00 too. Any comments on why I seem to be accumulating lactate, but have well functioning lungs?

Interesting data, thanks.

I'm by no means an expert, but my guess (which could be wrong) is that the high lactate limits your exercise capacity before you reach your maximum lung capacity.

I'm not exactly sure what the lactate does physiologically, but as it changes the pH of the blood, it may reduce the capacity of haemoglobin to pick up oxygen from the lungs, or to release it in(to) tissue.

 

[Valentijn]

@Noah GB - If you do another CPET at some point, doing one on a stationary bicycle might help determine what your VO2max is. Dizziness is a lot less of a problem then, since you're being somewhat supported by the seat and peddles.

 

[pemone]

I did a VO2max + lactate test the other day hoping to get a clue what my AT was. Both tests were conducted while walking and jogging on a threadmill. I suspect my lactate level reached 4 mmol/L long before 4 minutes had passed. Results:

• VO2max (couldn't reach it due to dizziness) at 07:30: 46,8 ml/kg/min. HR was at 204 bpm.
• Lactate baseline 1,4 mmol/L: at 04:00 it had increased to 4,2 mmol/L while jogging at 7 km/h. HR was 174 bmp.
• Lactate levels increased to 9,7 mmol/L until the test ended at 13:00.

The VO2"max" value places me in the "good" category, indicating that my lungs are functioning well.

VO2Max is measuring more than just lungs. It is measuring delivery of O2 to the cells. And it is verifying that the mitochondria are producing aerobic metabolism.

Your test result suggests you do not have CFS. Your aerobic metabolism is not impaired. Feelings of stiffness are not clear symptoms of CFS. When you say you got "hit by a train" what are the specific symptoms? It sounds disabling but I think CFS isn't the place to look.

 

[Noah GB]

It is critical to mention that I only did the test once. This is not a 2-day CPET. I too found my results to be odd as. I've been highly active with running, dancing, skateboarding, and tumbling all my life. Also, my father was extremely physically active well into his 70's. Anyway, I checked an article of Phoenix Rising again, and it appears to be the second day where things start getting abnormal. I'm going to repeat the test in a couple of weeks.

http://phoenixrising.me/archives/17902:
Day 2 results separated patients from controls
A Day 2 CFS patient…

The big differences between the groups emerged on the second maximal CPET test, 24 hours after the first. On average, controls did slightly better on Day 2 (something that has been observed in other studies too) while patients did substantially worse. Interestingly, VO2 peak did not differ significantly between patients and controls, but peak Watts output was significantly lower, as was VTO2 . The biggest difference of all was for Watts output at VT, down for the patient group by over half.

This ability of a 2-day repeat test to discriminate healthy but sedentary controls from CFS patients is critical. In theory, doctors can manage this easily enough without a CPET test.


Symptoms: muscular fatigue, difficulty standing or keeping my neck and head up when sitting, throbbing headache, brain fog, worsening of hyperadrenergic POTS, myalgias all over, even in parts of my body that wasn't involved in the test, bronchitis flareup, etc.

 

[Sea]

Your test result suggests you do not have CFS. Your aerobic metabolism is not impaired

I do not think you can draw that conclusion from this result. Many of those with ME/CFS do not show impairment on CPET day 1. Those who are very fit when they fall sick often still have a better result than the average sedentary healthy person.

 

[pemone]

I do not think you can draw that conclusion from this result. Many of those with ME/CFS do not show impairment on CPET day 1. Those who are very fit when they fall sick often still have a better result than the average sedentary healthy person.

True, he should get tested twice, and the second test should be 24 hours after the first.

Having said that, his aerobic metabolism is so good that - even with some impairment 24 hours later - you would think that whatever symptoms he is having are not attributable to diminished aerobic metabolism.

For people with a low VO2Max, it is very easy to understand what brain fog actually is. It is the brain starving for energy. The body cannot produce the energy aerobically, and glycolysis simply isn't enough to keep up with such an energy hungry organ.

For a person who has no problems creating energy at a cellular level using oxygen, it becomes much harder to know exactly what brain fog means or what causes it. This does *not* deny the symptom. It simply requires some extra steps to understand and define.

I supposed it is possible that people with low VO2Max are suffering from a different condition than those that have unimpaired aerobic metabolism, and they are being incorrectly grouped together under one common diagnosis of CFS.

 

[pemone]

Symptoms: muscular fatigue, difficulty standing or keeping my neck and head up when sitting, throbbing headache, brain fog, worsening of hyperadrenergic POTS, myalgias all over, even in parts of my body that wasn't involved in the test, bronchitis flareup, etc.

Have you been tested for heavy metals, particularly mercury?

Research Cutler's high and low sulfur food lists, and do a test seeing if high sulfur foods bring on your symptoms. The theory is that foods like coffee are single thiols that attract mercury and move it around without getting it out. That provokes symptoms.

I would also get a cheap Doctor's Data hair test done and have Cutler or someone in his group analyze it. The thing to look for on those tests is not necessarily high mercury, but instead low levels of many critical minerals. Cutler has statistical evidence showing that people with a certain diminished profile of critical minerals have high probability of mercury toxicity.

 

[Biarritz13]

Hello,

Is there a risk associated with a 1 day CPET for a mild person? I see that a lot of people regretted their CPET but it seems that it was the second day that stroke them.

 

[ryan31337]

Hi @Theodore,

I have taken 2x CPETs recently, several weeks apart. I took about 2 weeks to get back to a normal baseline level after the first one, not helped by having more appointments in London (4hr round trip) whilst recovering, which repeatedly overshot my limits.

I don't feel like there's any lasting damage done though and the precise data on your anaerobic threshold should really help guide your pacing, which I think is worth short-term setbacks. This is of course based on someone mild-moderate, I wouldn't even think about it if you are severely affected or in the height of a crash. Hope that helps...

 

[Biarritz13]

Hi @ryan31337

Thank you for reply, it helps indeed