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Anyone improve from bed/housebound to high level of functionality?

Discussion in 'General Treatment' started by Ocean, Oct 24, 2011.

  1. globalpilot

    globalpilot Senior Member

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    I believe blood would only show current exposures before the metals have a chance to bind to proteins and sulfurs etc in tissues.

    I don't know how one would have a mercury measurement of nil. It is in teh environment and we are all exposed to it.

     
  2. Vegas

    Vegas Senior Member

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    Perhaps this could have been worded differently, but I was referring to how Rich has repeatedly and consistently referred to Hg toxicity as something that has to be dealt with in order to restore glutathione to normal levels. I will have to let him speak for himself, but certainly the effects of mercury toxicity on GSH synthesis and oxidation are extremely well documented as compared to many other illness, toxins, and stressors which deplete glutathione. Of course chronic illness has been increasingly correlated with low glutathione, but nothing can compare to Hg in its ability to interfere with normal levels of GSH in so many different ways. Whether it be Hg's nearly unparalleled disruption of minerals, Hg's direct oxidative effects, its inteference in enzymatic processess, it's affinity for sulfhdyrl groups and GSH directly, as well it's numerous proven roles in causing secondary infections & immune dysfunction that create additional ROS and lower GSH. Who in the world ever came up with the idea of using that stuff in vaccines, fillings, cosmetics, medical products, etc. was just nuts.

    Hope the FDC works out for you as well. It's a long road, but at least, for most, it seems to take them somewhere.
     
  3. anniekim

    anniekim Senior Member

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    Vegas, congrats on your huge improvement. May I ask how long did you do the chelation for? You mention it took 18 months. Does chelation take that long? Many thanks
     
  4. richvank

    richvank Senior Member

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    Hi, Vegas.

    I'm very happy to hear about your continuing progress. I don't know whether mercury toxicity is the best characterized explanation for subnormal glutathione, but I do agree that it is certainly one of the explanations. I think that other toxins, probably including some of the biotoxins, and various pathogens can be responsible for holding glutathione down, too. Deficiencies in some of the essential nutrients are another possibility, I think. It appears that different factors are present in different people, which makes this business complicated.

    Best regards,

    Rich
     
  5. Vegas

    Vegas Senior Member

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    If you chelate, orally, it does take a very long time for most who have developed debilitating fatigue and associated symptoms. Time frame depends upon toxicity, excretion capabilities, dosage/type of chelator used, frequency of chelation, and a number of other variables, but 3-5 years is typical. I honestly expect to be doing this for at least a couple more years, but I am a clear outlier in terms of toxicity. What you have to remember is that despite the fact it is a long-term therapy, gains happen fairly quickly, and it's just a matter of taking a few pills around the clock. It certainly does precipitate symptoms, but like the methylation protocol, you do what you can tolerate, and you make it a part of your life. I will add that it was B12/Folate which gave me enough strength to get to the point where I could chelate, I'm not sure I could have done it without getting many of those enzymes working more efficiently again.
     
  6. Vegas

    Vegas Senior Member

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    Thanks for commenting. I think the HM's are particularly important because they interact at so many points with the biochemical processes that you have found to be nearly universally compromised in PWC's. Also the HM's are not transient stressors, especially in the brain. A couple of hundred days of chelation has really decreased the ROS for me. I can do so much more than before without consequences...your explanation about free radical damage causing fatigue is clearly on point. Mine is much improved. Thanks.
     
  7. Ocean

    Ocean Senior Member

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    Is it worth trying if you do not remove fillings? I definitely have a lot.
     
  8. Vegas

    Vegas Senior Member

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    I think that is not advisable. First speaking purely from a theoretical standpoint, you can make matters worse by chelating with amalgams. Dr. Cutler has spoken about the specific mechanism for this, which he says creates "a greater thermodynamic driving force for it to go into solution, by dissolving off the passivating oxide layer, by complexing the surface atoms and helping make it easier for them to go into solution." Individual reports have been mixed. Some have gotten much worse, especially when taking ALA. This worsening has primarily involved psychiatric symptoms. Very often these symptoms are delayed, with patients feeling euphoric early on. There are a handful of reports (of those who are confirmed Hg toxic) who have chelated w/ amalgam and experienced improvement. Obviously many people take chelating agents with fillings in place and suffer no ill effects from them, but I think this depends mostly on your accumulated burden, and detoxification capacity.
     
  9. Charles555nc

    Charles555nc Senior Member

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    I went from a 0 to a 6 and Im constantly updating my regimen

    http://forums.phoenixrising.me/show...-Updated-Vitamin-Protocol&p=238137#post238137

    Although I need to update that.

    I use edta suppositories for chelation because I have a bad reaction to repeated doses of ALA in one day (and edta gets lead unlike ALA). That said, you definitely have to have your fillings removed before chelating. This is what I get...and I only have to use it once a week.

    http://www.worldwellnessstore.com/detoxamin-1500-mg-30-suppositories.html?___store=default

    When you state what your fillings are, you state the largest amount of metal first. So though your doctor may call them "silver", the largest ingredient is mercury. So your "mercury amalagram fillings" really need to come out before mercury chelation, otherwise the chelation will pull it from your fillings and bring it into your body.

    Malic acid also works awesomely for cfs, and is supposed to have aluminum chelating properties. I just added it to my list.

    Some references about chelation destroying retroviruses, from this page, http://www.autismcalciumchannelopathy.com/HIV_and_Autism.html


    Disintegration of retroviruses by chelating agents - V. Wunderlich1 and G. Sydow1(1) April 1982. Central Institute for Cancer Research, Robert-Rssle-Institute, Academy of Sciences of the German Democratic Republic, Berlin, German Democratic Republic

    Metal chelators as potential antiviral agents. Hutchinson DW. Antiviral Res. 1985 Aug;5(4):193-205 Klin Wochenschr. 1991 Oct 2;69(15):722-4.

    Alpha-lipoic acid inhibits HIV replication - Grieb G. Med Monatsschr Pharm. 1992 Aug;15(8):243-4.
     
  10. Jenny

    Jenny Senior Member

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    Hi Charles

    Do you have any references to support this? I've taken Mg malate for years, but it doesn't seem to make any difference.

    Jenny
     
  11. Gavman

    Gavman Senior Member

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    I was bedbound for two years, got out of it with seeing a good therapist and a small dose of effexor. Started taking SAMe recently and have had alot more energy. Work every two days and have a day or two off.

    Now i'm quite active, and balanced. Just a few niggles to work out.
    Getting rid of core issues using psychology or breathwork (which works better as talking can be jarring), and physical work has helped alot.
     
  12. Charles555nc

    Charles555nc Senior Member

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    I wouldnt take mg malate, just malic acid, forms of vitamins do matter and although I take magnesium occassionally I dont take it every day. I take 2 800mg pills of malic acid, one in the morning and one 6 hours later. Makes my muscles de-cramp, my mental thinking clear a bit, increased energy, and less sleepyness. Its also supposed to be good as a chelator, antisceptic.

    I will say I couldnt tolerate it until I detoxed with long term, high dose sodium ascorbate (vitamin c).
     
  13. Lotus97

    Lotus97 Senior Member

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    I made a significant improvement over the course of 2 years, but then after working out at the gym for a few months (and doing nothing else the rest of the day except watching TV, going online, or laying in bed listening to music) my health got worse again. I think anyone who has Lyme, ME, or some sort of virus or infection is going to have a harder time making a lasting recovery until the illness is treated.
     
  14. Freddd

    Freddd Senior Member

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    Hi Lotus,

    In my experience this usually happens when a person has gone as far as they can without finding the next most limiting factor. When such a person finds the next most limiting item theyoften experience some heavyduty startup as a clue.
     
  15. Tristen

    Tristen Senior Member

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    Was mild-moderate for 12 years, then crashed into severe 90% bedbound and was there x 4 years. Started the AV Cidofavir x 1 year and made ~ 60-70% improvement= back to mild-mod level and not bedbound. Followed immediately with agressive antibiotic Lyme Tx x 1 year, then did Rich's methylation protocol = about 80% total improvements.

    The disability scale doesn't work for me because even though I am ~ 80% better overall, I still cannot handle stressors very well. PEM is my remaining predominate symptom.
     
  16. taniaaust1

    taniaaust1

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    The disability scales dont work well for me either as i cant do much without a collapse (if I get taken to the store I can only grab a few things before Im on the ground and unable to walk) but as I take care and dont do much.. Im not in bed during the day (except when I crash).
     

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