Invest in ME Conference 12: First Class in Every Way
OverTheHills wraps up our series of articles on this year's 12th Invest in ME International Conference (IIMEC12) in London with some reflections on her experience as a patient attending the conference for the first time.
Discuss the article on the Forums.

Anyone here who had difficulty tapering off clonazepam ?

Discussion in 'General Treatment' started by Braz, Dec 11, 2015.

  1. Braz

    Braz

    Messages:
    59
    Likes:
    11
    Basically, this drug makes me sick. And I'm 'hanging by a thread'.

    Did anyone switch to diazepam or follow some approach other than 'go slow' ?
    I did read the old threads.
     
  2. ahmo

    ahmo Senior Member

    Messages:
    4,340
    Likes:
    6,526
    Northcoast NSW, Australia
    I was using small doses for sleep. When I could no longer tolerate it, I found that pituitary glandular worked. For the other effects, hypothalamus glandular worked really well (overly reactive nervous system, intolerance of heat, noise, light. For a couple years I covered all 3 aspects of HPA axis w/ glandulars: hypothalamus, pituitary, adrenal. The adrenals worked for me when I could no longer use other things to support my adrenals, ie. licorice, cortef. I also used thymus for a time. Eventually detox and diet changes plus getting the correct micro nutrients, made these glandulars unnecessary. Good luck. Hard problem.

    There are other brands, these are the ones I gravitated towards.

    http://au.iherb.com/Ultra-Glandular-Enterprises-Raw-Pituitary-60-Easy-To-Swallow-Tablets/10169

    http://au.iherb.com/Nutricology-Hypothalamus-100-Veggie-Caps/16690

    http://au.iherb.com/Nutricology-Adrenal-Natural-Glandular-150-Veggie-Caps/45935
     
    leela likes this.
  3. Sushi

    Sushi Senior Member Albuquerque

    Messages:
    14,327
    Likes:
    21,473
    Albuquerque
    Did you read Gabby's story and the comments of well known ME/CFS doctors on Klonopin and tapering?
     
  4. geraldt52

    geraldt52 Senior Member

    Messages:
    395
    Likes:
    1,534
    Out of complete ignorance on the subject I quit Klonopin "cold turkey". It was a living hell, and now 15 years later I still feel that I am damaged from the Klonopin. During the Klonopin withdrawal I tried any number of substitute drugs for sleep, but was unable to use the taper method to work my way off any of them...as soon as I would reduce the dosage from a dose that worked, they would become completely useless.

    I don't know why you were taking Klonopin, but FWIW I consider all of Dr. Cheney's ideas on Klonopin in regard to CFS to be complete nonsense without any science to back it up...I kick myself every day that I bought into the nonsense. If you were prescribed Klonopin for a seizure disorder you should probably involve the prescribing doctor in anything you decide.

    Have you made your way here: http://www.benzo.org.uk/ yet?
     
  5. Sushi

    Sushi Senior Member Albuquerque

    Messages:
    14,327
    Likes:
    21,473
    Albuquerque
    Do you mind saying what dose you were taking when you quit?
     
  6. minkeygirl

    minkeygirl But I Look So Good.

    Messages:
    4,678
    Likes:
    4,647
    Left Coast
    I have tapered off Klonopin. I had been on one mg for many years. The best way is the titration method. I took 2months to get off, months 2-12 were horrible and I hardly slept for a year. But I am off now.

    Why you are taking klonopin is irrelevant. I had great benefit from it when I started it.

    If you want to know how to taper, and switching to valium isn't really necessary for klonopin, PM me. I can tell you exactly how I did it. What equipment you need (I found much easier ways) and I can help you.

    Or check out www.benzobuddies.org. You will be anonymous. That is where I got all my information, people can set up taper schedules for you and are there all the time to help you. The site @geraldt52 gave you is where you learn about the titration method ala Dr. Heather Ashton but it's much easier to talk to people who've done it. There are also youtube videos.
     
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2015
    josephine2 likes this.
  7. geraldt52

    geraldt52 Senior Member

    Messages:
    395
    Likes:
    1,534
    If I remembered I'd be happy to say, but I honestly don't remember. I was taking it based on Cheney's "neuro protective" idea, which I now think he just made up, and all that I remember was that the dose was significant...nothing like a "low dose" strategy. When the dose became a problem, the advice Cheney was giving was to increase it. I reached a point where I couldn't increase it, and I couldn't decrease it...and then hell began.
     
    josephine2 and Sushi like this.
  8. Braz

    Braz

    Messages:
    59
    Likes:
    11
    Thanks for all the replies !

    @geraldt52,

    Unfortunately they don't heave real detoxes for benzos here. I don't live in the USA. This drug is rarely prescribed here, so doctors do not know how to deal with problems. Going to that detox facility in Florida is a bit of a strecht, it sure must be very costly ...
    That facility used Tranxene. Some docs that you referred to also recommended Tranxene.

    (As a side note a doc tried to withdraw me using lorazepam, which backfired, and now the clonazepam is much harder to tolerate. I also tried diazepam, which barely (if at all) covers withdrawal from clonazepam. The dependence/withdrawal syndrome of diazepam is no picknick either. Also, the diazepam needed to be taken more than twice a day, while I can take the clonazepam once a day. So I just aborted that plan. Very different from clonazepam, as day and night)

    Does anyone know more about Tranxene ? I had read Cheney's statement that the protocol was to use Tranxene for clonazepam discontinuation, but that was all. Apparently, some other doctors seem to favor it too.
    Why this one ? Commonly, only diazepam and Librium are used.
    And what is the 'duration of action' (how long does it last) which is not the same as 'half life' ?
    This is the only forum that even mentions using Tranxene for clonazepam discontinuation.
    I think that if I want to do this I'd need to know a bit more. To be honest, I wonder if it is not too 'weak' to cover the withdrawal from clonazepam.

    And I guess clonazepam can be 'neuro protective', till it backfires and you need to stop taking it !
     
    Last edited: Dec 13, 2015
  9. Braz

    Braz

    Messages:
    59
    Likes:
    11
    @minkeygirl,

    I am familiar with that forum. Just 'go slow' won't work for me. It's just a messy, toxic drug that works differently depending on the dose. I can even get the liquid drops from the pharmacy, but that seems to work differently than the tablets !
    The forum almost religiously defends the Ashton protol/'5 to 10 % dose cuts every two weeks', direct taper or tapering with diazepam. Well, what if that doesn't work ?
     
    Last edited: Dec 13, 2015
  10. Mary

    Mary Senior Member

    Messages:
    2,733
    Likes:
    6,109
    Southern California
    @Braz - this might be helpful:
    http://orthomolecular.org/resources/omns/v10n09.shtml

    One more thing - if you are tagging someone in your post to let them know you're responding, put an "@" before the name - e.g., @Braz, and they will be notified you've responded. If you just put the name without the "@" symbol, they won't get any notification - it took me awhile to figure this out :confused::)
     
    Sushi likes this.
  11. geraldt52

    geraldt52 Senior Member

    Messages:
    395
    Likes:
    1,534
    Nothing about the Ashton protocol worked for me either, @Braz...my link to that website was for informative purposes, not an endorsement. By the time I found the website I was well in to Klonopin withdrawal, using any number of drugs, including other benzos, to try to get some sleep.

    The final result was that every substitute drug led me down the same path of habituation as the Klonopin, and any version of tapering was entirely useless for all of them. In the end I stopped everything cold turkey. I'm not recommending that, just letting you know that is how it all ended with me, and I survived...barely. Since some people do report good results with tapering, I've always assumed there was something unique about my situation and Klonopin.
     
    josephine2 likes this.
  12. Braz

    Braz

    Messages:
    59
    Likes:
    11
  13. Braz

    Braz

    Messages:
    59
    Likes:
    11
  14. minkeygirl

    minkeygirl But I Look So Good.

    Messages:
    4,678
    Likes:
    4,647
    Left Coast
    Same theory. Although I believed I was able to slowly taper off that. Years before I know about titration. It was too long ago for me to remember.

    A lot or what you do depends on the half life. If it has along half life you can dry cut it. Half life of tranxene is 30-40 hours. Same as klonopin. So you would probably want to titrate. But I don't know for sure.

    The website below talks about every benzo and z drug. Someone there will be able to help you.

    I strongly urge you to www.benzobuddies.org.
     
    josephine2 likes this.
  15. Braz

    Braz

    Messages:
    59
    Likes:
    11
    @minkeygirl,

    I did try to use that forum, but I didn't get anywhere if I wanted to do anthing but a straight 'vanilla' direct taper or switch to diazepam ... Ashton this, Ashton that. They wouldn't get me any information about Tranxene.

    This is the only website that has several references to using Tranxene for the purpose of tapering clonazepam. Am I crazy, or should I be able to get more information about that 'protocol' on this website ? Anyone (active) on this forum who actually took it for that purpose ?
    And I'm still wondering about the 'duration of action' which is not the same as 'half life'.
    For me, clonazepam lasts all day except that it starts to wear off the the end of the afternoon.
     
  16. minkeygirl

    minkeygirl But I Look So Good.

    Messages:
    4,678
    Likes:
    4,647
    Left Coast
    Start you're own thread in tranxene or pm the moderator. Yes Ashton led the titration movement but people dry cut or at least did. She's the only one doing it. Why shouldn't people reference her? Just like we talk about Cheney and Peterson. Or klimas.

    I know I dry cut to get off tranxene. This was after many years of use and no one knew about withdrawal. I don't remember having problems.

    Try that if you want. If it doesn't work start titration. Switching to other meds to get off a tough one is common. Much less Symtoms. Xanax to Valium. That doesn't mean it's not the same thing. Ask how they got off tranxene. People can't help if you don't ask them.

    What matters is not how long you feel it but how long it lasts in your blood. That's what causes withdrawal. As the blood levels drop, symtoms start. That's why you go down 1/100th of a mg every few days with klonopin.
    The principal is the same with tranxene.

    There used to be a forum where they would calculate your taper schedule no matter what you on.

    I spent a month reading and understanding it before i started. I don't think you get it if you don't understand how it works in your blood

    And stopping cold turkey can cause years of protracted withdrawal. I had no problems with habituation or tolerance and many don't.

    Do more research on forums specifically for that. Ask questions there. We can't tell you what to do.
     
    josephine2 likes this.
  17. digital dog

    digital dog Senior Member

    Messages:
    602
    Likes:
    909
    The only way is through Im afraid.
    I wouldnt substitute one drug for another because then you have to come off that drug....and the next...and the next.
    Stopped sleeping entirely after I came off two years of 0.5 mg. It was hell but felt so much better after a year or so.
    When I was on klonopin I was unbalanced and woke early every day. CFS doctor said it ant addictive but I doubt he ever experienced withdrawal.
    Scary stuff but you may find it all goes fairly smoothly.
     
    josephine2 likes this.
  18. Braz

    Braz

    Messages:
    59
    Likes:
    11
    @minkeygirl,

    Did you take Tranxene to get off clonazepam (taken once a day?) or not ? I'm a bit confused.
    If you switched from clonazepam to Tranxene, do you remember how often (two or three times a day?) you took the Tranxene ? Do you remember the equivalent dose you took ?
    Of course, feel free to send this by PM if you prefer.

    On that BB forum I didn't find a single person who took Tranxene to get off clonazepam. It's all diazepam or Librium.

    @digital dog,
    That clonazepam is already so hard to tolerate, and it is such a messy drug. Diazepam is messy in its own way, and i fear dependence/tolerance/withdrawal from that drug. Possibly, dependence/tolerance is much less of an issue with Tranxene, but it is just hard to get any information about it.

    Tranxene ... only on this forum it has been discussed as a way to get off clonazepam, but all I've read were very brief statements. BB worships Ashton, supports the direct 'vanilla' taper or switch to diazepam/Librium, that's it.
     
  19. minkeygirl

    minkeygirl But I Look So Good.

    Messages:
    4,678
    Likes:
    4,647
    Left Coast
    I took tranxene alone so got off it dry cutting. Don't rememebt the dose 7.5 mgs? It was many years ago.

    I took klonopin alone at a diffenet time and used titration. This was 1 mg

    As I told you before. Post your specific question on the benzo forum. People know equivalent doses and and can advise you on what to do. All becuase the info is not there doesn't mean someone doesn't know. They can't read your mind.

    I also don't understand why you want to switch to tranxene to get off klonopin? Most switch to valium. There is a reason they do that. As I said I think klon and tranxene have the same half life. So switching makes zero sense if that is true. You want to switch to something with a very long half life.

    I have no I more information or suggestions for you. The people who can help you most are on benzo forums. They can tell you equivalence and give you a taper schedule. Sign up and post your question. Or Sign up and PM the mod. They can help. Based on my own experience you need much more information before you proceed.

    Good luck.
     
    josephine2 likes this.
  20. Braz

    Braz

    Messages:
    59
    Likes:
    11
    @minkeygirl,

    I get it. Thanks. You took both drugs and tapered off both directly.

    To all:
    I didn't have much luck with that forum. Information about direct tapers, diazepam, Librium : sure.
    Questions about tapering off clonazepam by using Tranxene: nothing. Someone looked up how long Tranxene would last. Other sources came up with different information. I was hoping to 'leech' some information regarding tapering off Klonopin with Tranxene from this forum, since apparently some people did this.

    And there might be a PH and stomach issue. Which is not very clear to me.
    That BB forum has people who tapered off Tranxene by switching to diazepam !
     

See more popular forum discussions.

Share This Page