Discussion in 'General Treatment' started by Willhm, Aug 5, 2013.
I have just come across it and I was wondering if anyone here has heard of it or suffers from it?
Yes. The elimination diet from the Royal Prince Alfred Hospital (Australia) checks for salicylate intolerance (as well as amines, glutamates, preservatives, dairy and gluten). It is a process I have followed with myself and each of my 3 girls to successfully identify dietary migraine triggers.
We all have differing levels of intolerance to salicylates which can build up and contribute to all sorts of symptoms including migraines. None of us have to avoid them completely.
I think one of the SA (Sth Australia) CFS society articles once had a very indepth article on various kinds of intollerances and I think this one was spoken of it that.
* Royal Prince Alfred Hospital (Australia) .. is one of our most well known hospitals in Australia.
edit.. I just found the article from the SA CFS society I'd been thinking of http://sacfs.asn.au/publications/talking_point/2001/2_jun/ate_print.htm . I'd say this is a must read article for anyone here who has intollerances to things.
You should ask dannybex . He's very much into the dangers of salicylates.
There was an article on it in a UK paper a while back. The ME and CFS online groups have been talking about it for years.
Salicylate intolerance research goes back many decades, and many books have been written. In 1984 in Australia it was shown to be linked to the enzymes delta-5 and delta-6 desaturase, and when it damages them it causes symptoms. However to get there the liver has to fail detox, and the gut, and you have to have limited desaturase capacity. Insufficient reduced glutathione is implicated here. I cannot say more at the moment as I am about to go offline.
I am sure there are many more sites that talk about salicylate intolerances, but here are a few that I have found:
Also check out books by Sue Dengate, Feingold, and others. They might have their own websites also.
I show on DNA tests damage from salicylate so I stopped topical sals. and tried a sal free diet for 4 weeks. I did not feel any better so changed to a lowish sal diet - basically macrobiotic but stayed off the topicals (I use clay for hair washing)
I was not convinced that going sal free with diet was the way to go, when items that remained might not be the best ones for healing. It also depressed me as it was so restrictive.
I am seeing dramatic changes now in my health after three months macrobiotic. Neurotransmitters are much better balanced, far less mood swings, only occuring if I eat fruit, bowel improvements with much better stools, hair loss has stopped (that was vit C) and less brain fog. I still eat some high sals foods like brazil nuts sesame and pumpkin seeds.
I take aspirin regularly its the only thing that makes me feel better?? strange illness.....
Salicylates...don't get me started. But as they're almost ubiquitous, one has to eat something, so I've been doing low-medium sals/phenols, and taking No-Fenol enzymes and off and on also calcium d-glucarate and glycine. Alex is correct above, and I also should note the sals/phenols mess up thiamine metabolism, very important in ME/CFS.
Just recently found a couple of studies that suggest that l. plantarum and b. bifidus may help metabolize phenols/sals, so will ask the doc about this soon. No doubt there is probably some sort of gut connection as there is to other food intolerances.
Also have read that some have been able to eliminate their salicylate (and other) intolerances by correcting/improving thyroid status (hypothyroidism, and autoimmune thyroiditis)...
Just putting this info out here. One can believe it or not. It's an article from Ray Peat. I just cherry picked some info about aspirin from this article....
"Aspirin is an antioxidant that protects against lipid peroxidation, but it also stimulates mitochondrial respiration. It can inhibit abnormal cell division, but promote normal cell division. It can facilitate learning, while preventing excitotoxic nerve injury. It reduces clotting, but it can decrease excessive menstrual bleeding. These, and many other strangely beneficial effects of aspirin, strongly suggest that it is acting on very basic biological processes, in a coherent way."...........
"Aspirin activates both glycolysis and mitochondrial respiration, and this means that it shifts the mitochondria away from the oxidation of fats, toward the oxidation of glucose, resulting in the increased production of carbon dioxide. Its action on the glycolytic enzyme, GAPDH, is the opposite of estrogen's."......
"Although the animal studies that showed stomach damage from aspirin often used single doses equivalent to 10 or 100 aspirin tablets, the slight irritation produced by a normal dose of aspirin can be minimized by dissolving the aspirin in water. The stomach develops a tolerance for aspirin over a period of a few days, allowing the dose to be increased if necessary. And both aspirin and salicylic acid can be absorbed through the skin, so rheumatic problems have been treated by adding the drug to bath water."......
Thanks for all the replies. I am trying to reduce the amount of salicylates I am having and sew if it helps. So far I have taken away butternut squash and avocado and added leek, lettuce, pears and prawns. Plus we have bought some apples with low salicylates rather than high. I think as I have been basically without meat or fish for pretty much three years expect for a few occasions, my body is not too sure about the prawns but hopefully will get used to them soon, today and yesterday i had three medium sized ones, labelled as king but not very big, has anyone else experienced this with added fish or meat back in?
About getting "used to" aspirin...my Dad was prescribed 1 aspirin a day for heart trouble. They did not put him on baby aspirin until he was coughing up blood (which occurred after a long time - maybe a year). So I don't think you get "used to" a COX-2 inhibitor.
That said, aspirin is an excellent anti-PAF (anti platelet activating factor) supplement. I may have to take it every day in allergy season as my allergies are causing PAF enough to close off blood vessels and cause great pain (let alone what that can lead to). It is a balancing act. It's interesting that aspirin has other effects in shifting away from oxidation of fats (anerobic I think?) to oxidation of glucose (Kreb cycle, more energy). I will have to read up more about it. I never appreciated aspirin until this year when no other herbal remedy would touch sinus headache and a simple aspirin did the trick immediately.
Oxidation of fats, if I recall correctly, is still aerobic, but requires more oxygen than oxidation of carbs, so it puts a bigger demand on oxygen problems. My biochemistry is getting rusty though, its worth checking if you think this is important.
Aspirin and similar NSAIDs are the second leading cause of gastrointestinal ulcers. So they should be treated with care. This is because they inhibit synthesis of gastrointestinal eicosanoids, which blocks healing of the gut. So aspirin leads to reduced gut healing. So its good for some things, bad for others, and requires a little care.
Aspirin, I think, is a COX inhibitor, not simply a COX-2 inhibitor. Vioxx was a COX-2 inhibitor, and they were touted as the answer because they did not cause the stomach problems like aspirin did. I think the gut uses COX-1 isoform. Further I think aspirin is a COX suicide inhibitor, which means it does not just suppress COX activity, it destroys it.
@alex3619 I've read that calcium d-glucarate is helpful for detoxing salicylates via glucuronidation, which is one of the liver's detox routes. Does this make sense to you?
Also, interesting re delta-5 and delta-6 desaturase. On my ancient NutrEval test from 2010, my delta-5 desaturase activity was rated as 'functional', but the delta-6 was 'upregulated' when it came to the linoleic/DGLA ratio, but 'functional' regarding the Eicosadienoic/DGLA ratio.
I was eating low-saturated fat (and still am having trouble w/increasing sat fats), but was supplementing with evening primrose oil and at times, flax or fish oil. Any insights would be greatly appreciated.
So…I'm guessing this means that in those with suspected salicylate sensitivity/intolerance, that this would not be a good thing? From what I've read, glycolysis requires an aerobic environment in order to move ATP to the Krebs cycle. And isn't that messed up in most ME/CFS patients?
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