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Anyone else with high histamine and insomnia?

Discussion in 'Sleep' started by leanguy, Dec 18, 2013.

  1. leanguy

    leanguy

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    I have been suffering from severe insomnia for the past 10 years (40 year old male). I can usually fall asleep, but wake within 1-2 hours and usually stay awake the rest of the night (or get another hour of sleep around 4am). I have been through hundreds of labs, drugs, supplements and therapies but haven't found a solid answer yet. The only nugget I have right now is elevated whole blood histamine (142 on a scale of 12-127). On a prior test it was 151, so I know this has been a real issue. This can indicate "undermethylation", and it makes sense that it would cause insomnia because calming neurotransmitters are low, while stimulating histamine is high. I am waiting for the results of another test, Methylation Pathways Panel, that will truly show if I am undermethylated. I have been taking methionine 2g in divided doses, with vitamin C for several months. I have seen some improvement, but nothing spectacular. Taking too many "methyl" donors gets me too wired up, so it is a balancing act. Anyone else in the same boat here?
     
    Last edited: Dec 19, 2013
  2. Snowdrop

    Snowdrop Vexacious, thy name is PACE

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    Your sleep pattern sounds like mine.
    Unfortunately I have not figured out what to do about it and I have limited resources in any case.
    I am waiting on finding some potassium before starting a simplified methyl protocol.
    My Dr has Rxed Lyrica but it's early days to know if that will do anything as I'm taking small titrated doses from the capsules and working up.
     
  3. Star-Anise

    Star-Anise Senior Member

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    @leanguy I have suffered from insomnia for most of my life, and I too, have high histamine, although I have never had it definitely tested as it was quite obvious being that my body acts/acted like it was allergic to everything.
    Interestingly, too many methyl donors makes me wired up too.
    Unfortunately I have found that there are no really easy answers, and it has taken a little of this and a little of that to get my body to sleep well. And I still don't have the situation solved 100%.
    I have found sleep to be this interplay between both environmental factors (ensuring low stress, lights off and dark in house 2 hours prior to bed, good sleep-habits i.e. same time, no reading in bed) & strategic supplements to address the underlying physiological causes.
    For me a huge component was weak adrenals. My adrenals never tested in the abnormal range as per am/pm cortisol blood draws, but when I had saliva testing done my naturopath was able to identify that I had adrenal fatigue as my cortisol production didn't modulate accordingly to time of day & I had high night-time cortisol. I can provide you with more information if you feel that this might be an issue for you, in terms of what supplements and regimens worked for me to address. Related to the adrenal fatigue in my studies can be these issues with histamine. I have to eat a very, very restricted diet, and if I eat something as seemingly mundane as say a mango, I won't sleep either. As well, related to the adrenals was my problems with hypoglycemia. This accounts often for people's middle of the night wakings. It doesn't have to be an actual hypoglycemia low, but sugars falling too rapidly (relative hypoglycemia).
    Lastly, it is evident that I have issues with melatonin production, and through the years I have on/off again used Tryptophan. However, *note my theory, I think some people especially with potential genetic mutations (snps) on MAO genes can have problems with that serotonin - melatonin pathway. I think I am one of those people. So if I take too much Tryptophan it is too stimulating, and too little does nothing.
    Specifically with respect to the histamine - insomnia connection, for a long time I used antihistamines (over the counter) to sleep. Just make sure you don't get the non-drowsy kind. I often used gravol as well, which works as a anti-histamine...
    Hope that helps...
    S
     
    heyitisjustin, leanguy and Snowdrop like this.
  4. Hell...Hath...No...Fury..

    Hell...Hath...No...Fury.. Senior Member

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    I've had insomnia my whole life way before the ME. I've never thought to have histamine levels tested even though the only migraine tablets that were ever really effective for me contained antihistamines.
    The migraine tablet in question has since been stopped so I had to source the antihistamine part of it myself. Available on amazon.
    Its called doxylamine succinate and if taken on its own before bed, works great as a sleeping tablet. It can't be used long term though as the body gets used to it. A quarter of a tablet is enough to sleep to begin with but then after a few weeks one whole tablet is needed for the same effect so a break is needed. But its great for correcting a wonky or reversed sleep pattern whenever it happens or to bring bedtime earlier, for occasional use.
    Once it knocks you out, you tend to get a decent amount of hours sleep too, i usually sleep a full 8 hours on it :)
     
  5. leanguy

    leanguy

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    Thanks for the replies.

    @Star-Anise sounds like we have similar issues. It is true, excess histamine over stimulates the adrenals. I have been taking tryptophan + seriphos in the evening and seeing some improvement. I try to stay away from antihistamine drugs because they can actually increase histamine in the long term. If your histamine excess is coming from food, you might try a diamine oxidase supplement with meals. It is kind of pricey though... the cheapest is daosin from swanson. It didn't do anything for me, so I think undermethylation is the cause for me. I'll keep this thread updated. Thanks again.
     
    SickOfSickness and Star-Anise like this.
  6. martytheman

    martytheman

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    I think I have histamine issues , and I am also intolerant to methyls - but I have found N-acetyl-cysteine + L-theanine gives me great sleep. I need to take a bit of niacin sometimes because l-theanine is a methyl donor ( and I get back pain ) - niacin clears it out pretty well usually about 50mg ( or is that mcg ) . Anyway I had insomnia since I was very young.
     
  7. Gingergrrl

    Gingergrrl Senior Member

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    I don't want to take this thread off topic but was wondering if anyone in the thread is still able to find this product which has been discontinued by Swanson and seems to be off the market- period.
     
  8. danaclaire

    danaclaire

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  9. Gingergrrl

    Gingergrrl Senior Member

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    All of the alternatives have more fillers than the original Daosin like talc or shellac etc. am now taking Histamine Blocker and it is okay but hoping some day the original is back on the market.
     
  10. danaclaire

    danaclaire

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    I can't find a product called "Histamine Blocker." Are you referring to the Seeking Health product "Histamine Block"?
     
  11. Timaca

    Timaca Senior Member

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    I do not have high blood histamine levels, although I do think I have histamine intolerance. Unlike all the food charts for histamine contents of food, I cannot eat poultry or meat....it is simply too high in histamine for me. I can eat fish, if it is very fresh, but I ate so much of that, that my mercury levels went high. :eek: They are back to normal now.

    I sleep decently enough when I watch what I eat, but if I eat too many foods high in histamine, I get itchy, headachey and I don't sleep well.

    The Diamine Oxidase enzymes did nothing for me when I tried them with food.

    It seems that I also have other food intolerances as well....still trying to sort that all out.

    This post on my blog talks a little about my histamine intolerance. I have a lot of references about histamine intolerance on the Resources page of my blog.

    It seems I can get away with eating some tomato here and there, but maybe not so much avocado. I am still experimenting. Most probiotics don't work for me due to histamine issues. Animal protein doesn't work so I'm eating a lot of legumes.

    Best,
     
  12. Gingergrrl

    Gingergrrl Senior Member

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    Yes that is the one and I got the name wrong, sorry about that!
     
  13. lnester7

    lnester7 Seven

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    OK so insomnia is when you cannot go to sleep fast, staying sleep is something different. This is important because the type of medication to help you is different. there are sleep inducers and (I dont knwo what the staying sleep category is called).

    CFS is known for stage 4 issues. I take trazadone without it I would wake up every 2 hours and wake up as if a truck hit me. I could never found anything natural to help since most things are inducers. Good luck because I started to feel so much better once I addressed the sleep so I hope you can resolve too.
     
  14. Oci

    Oci Senior Member

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    Xymogen makes a product called Histdao. Expensive. Am about to try it.
     
  15. Gingergrrl

    Gingergrrl Senior Member

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    Googled it and same fillers like methyl cellulose and shellac that I am trying to avoid. It's probably similar to histamine block.
     
  16. Oci

    Oci Senior Member

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    Why are you trying to avoid methyl cellulose and shellac? I am about to take it....indeed have taken it before. Not sure if it makes any difference for me but will try again. I have very very itchy eyes. Perhaps just spring allergies but I have signs of SIBO too.
    How does one know if one has a histamine problem?
     
  17. Gingergrrl

    Gingergrrl Senior Member

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    @Oci I avoid them b/c they are very unhealthy and allergenic fillers for me. I guess shellac more of a coating than filler. I don't tolerate methylcellulose in food either.

    Re: itchy eyes- unless this is directly triggered following histamine in food, Daosin would not be relevant vs. an H1 blocker like Zyrtec or Benadryl etc. Daosin is taken right before eating (but has no effect on true IgE allergies) vs. tamping down histamine reactions from food which are my #1 MCAS trigger.

    Hope this helps.
     
  18. Snowdrop

    Snowdrop Vexacious, thy name is PACE

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    Hi @Oci

    Not suggesting this has to be true for you but itchy eyes is sometimes a sign of Sjogren's disease also known as sicca. It is autoimmune.
    Here's a link: https://www.sjogrens.org/
     
  19. Oci

    Oci Senior Member

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    Thanks @Gingergrrl Good to know. I need to do a lot more reading to figure out what is going on. Eyes this morning were very puffy and itchy. Optometrist has now prescribed a steroid drop...not a good answer IMO! This all started suddenly the morning after I arrived home from out west. It was still very cold with freezing rain here and so airborne allergies seemed unlikely...I have had allergy in spring before and itchy eyes in spring before.

    I'm thinking that if it were related to SIBO that I would have had symptoms when out west when diet had a lot more carbs.

    Hope not! Don't think so.
     
  20. heyitisjustin

    heyitisjustin

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    From what I understand seriphos lowers cortisol and that cortisol is responsible for lowering histamine. You might want to try not taking seriphos at night
     

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