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Anyone else taking Citicoline?

Discussion in 'General Treatment' started by Athene, Feb 4, 2012.

  1. garcia

    garcia Aristocrat Extraordinaire

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    Hi Marco, look up the work of Dr Cheney, Dr Jay Goldstein, and Dr Martin Pall wrt NMDA receptors and ME/CFS. Let me know if you have problems, and I'll attempt to look up references.
  2. Marco

    Marco Old blackguard

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    Thanks Garcia. Pall's model of multiple chemical sensitivity I'm aware of. Did Jay Goldstein specifically single out NMDA receptors?

    Cheney I haven't noticed mentioning glutamate/NMDA receptors.

    Any references would be most appreciated.
  3. garcia

    garcia Aristocrat Extraordinaire

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    Hi Marco, I can't remember if Goldstein specifically singled out NMDA receptors, but he did mention them, and many of the drugs he recommended seemed to affect NMDA receptors.

    I actually found out about the whole glutamate/NMDA thingy from Cheney. I think it was from one of his lecture notes online from way back. This is the kind of thing:
    http://www.prohealth.com/library/showarticle.cfm?libid=8021
  4. lansbergen

    lansbergen Senior Member

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    If Garcia is right patients who tried to inhibit NMDA receptors better stay away from levamisole.

    Nature always will try to restore balance and when that is not possible will try to install a new balance.

    It could be that by inhibiting activation numbers increase. When these higher numbers are activated by levamisole one can get in big trouble.
    Marco likes this.
  5. Marco

    Marco Old blackguard

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    Much appreciated:)
  6. perchance dreamer

    perchance dreamer Senior Member

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    Athene, you said citicoline helps you sleep better. What time do you take it?

    I got the Jarrow Citicoline, 250 MG. The first day I took one capsule in morning. It felt like a very mild stimulant and mood enhancer. However, my sleep was really bad that night.

    The next day I took 1/2 a capsule in the morning. It had less effect, but I slept fine.

    Yesterday and today I also took 1/2 a capsule in the mornings, also. However, both days it made me really sleepy during the day.

    I'll keep experimenting with the dose and timing because I really benefited from the subtle stimulant effect and need that.
  7. beaverfury

    beaverfury beaverfury

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    Hi PD,

    How are you going with the citicoline?
  8. Lotus97

    Lotus97 Senior Member

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    Some people were also reporting anxiety/overstimulation from Citicoline. Would this also be from too much acetylcholine or could something else about Citicoline cause that?
  9. lansbergen

    lansbergen Senior Member

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    In my opion it is not too much acethylcholine but understimulated A7 nAchR's.

    I need both nicotine as an agonist and levamisole as a positive modulator to stimulate these receptors enough to improve. .
  10. adreno

    adreno 3% neanderthal

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    I generally find cholinergics to be anxiolytic. It is theoretically possible that excess ACh can overstimulate the NMDA, but this is probably rare. CDP-choline also increase the density of dopamine receptors in the striatum, and this could help to explain symptoms of irritability. Overall I find it to be a wonderful supplement.
    Lotus97 likes this.
  11. Lotus97

    Lotus97 Senior Member

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    Also, dopamine can convert to norepinephrine in some people.
  12. perchance dreamer

    perchance dreamer Senior Member

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    I'm still experimenting, but I'm really liking the citicoline.

    Taking 1/2 of a 250 MG cap made me sleepy for a lot of the day, so I started taking the full capsule again, first thing in the morning.

    It does make me sleepy for a few hours, but later in the day I get a really nice mood boost and slightly more energy.

    The full 250 MG citicoline no longer has a bad effect on my sleep; in fact, it's actually a little better now. I'm not noticing any better concentration or memory, but maybe that will come with time.
  13. beaverfury

    beaverfury beaverfury

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    I wish i could add something to the technical side of the discussion but i don't understand the whole Acetylcholine, Muscarinic mechanism very well.

    I would like to stress again that Citicoline has a major positive effect on my pain and energy symptoms of cfs.
    To the point where my body feels pain free, clear and ready for action when i am taking it.
    Its quite dramatic and curious.

    But...in me at least, its negative effects of depression are intolerable. That leaves me somewhere between elated and despairing.

    Maybe i have some genetic issue which makes it cfs-effective in me, so i wouldnt want to ram it down peoples throats.......On the other hand, maybe it deals with some common pathological problem in me/cfs(?)

    Today i took a very small amount of citicoline sublingually and got a noticeable but more modest effect of both positive and negative. This may be a workable regime for me. I have to investigate the half life of citicoline, its interactions with other supplements/drugs or possible choline/phospholipid(?) alternatives.

    One suggestion i got was perhaps upping an antidepressant to offset the depressive effects, or adding a muscarinic antagonist. This might be a good option. Rich Van mentioned scopolamine, but there may be many other choices.

    Rich Vank discussed phospholipids ;
    Given that the methylation cycle appears to be partially blocked in many or most
    cases of CFS, use of citicoline might be a way to expedite the
    replacement of phospholipids that have been damaged by oxidative
    stress in CFS.

    My bottle of Jarrows Citicoline says, ' Citicoline consumption promotes brain metabolism by enhancing the synthesis
    of acetylcholine, restoring phospholipid content in the brain....'.

    Maybe its the phospholipid action that is proving effective, in which case, i could take alternatives ?

    I've got a lot of reading to do.
  14. beaverfury

    beaverfury beaverfury

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    Just found this on Pubmed. In plain english i think it says citicoline is good for pain relief
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21836465
    The antihyperalgesic effect of cytidine-5'-diphosphate-choline in neuropathic and inflammatory pain models.

    'The i.c.v. administration of CDP-choline (0.5, 1.0 and 2.0 µmol) produced a dose and time-dependent reversal of mechanical hyperalgesia in both carrageenan-induced inflammatory and chronic constriction injury-induced neuropathic pain models in rats. The antihyperalgesic effect of CDP-choline was similar to that observed with an equimolar dose of choline (1 µmol).

    These results indicate that CDP-choline-elicited antihyperalgesic effect in different models of pain occurs through mechanisms that seem to involve an interaction with supraspinal α7-selective nicotinic ACh receptors, and γ-aminobutyric acid B receptors, whereas central opioid receptors have a role only in the neuropathic pain model.'

    Wiki

    Hyperalgesia
    ... is an increased sensitivity to pain, which may be caused by damage to nociceptors or peripheral nerves. Temporary increased sensitivity to pain also occurs as part of sickness behavior, the evolved response to infection.
    Hyperalgesia can be experienced in focal, discrete areas, or as a more diffuse, body-wide form. Conditioning studies have established that it is possible to experience a learned hyperalgesia of the latter, diffuse form.

    Hyperalgesia is induced by platelet-activating factor (PAF) which comes about in an inflammatory or an allergic response. This seems to occur via immune cells interacting with the peripheral nervous system and releasing pain-producing chemicals (cytokines and chemokines).[3]

    The release of proinflammatory cytokines such as Interleukin-1 by activated leukocytes triggered by lipopolysaccharides, endotoxins and other signals of infection also increases pain sensitivity as part of sickness behavior, the evolved response to illness.[1][12][13]


  15. beaverfury

    beaverfury beaverfury

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    ...And this

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16942753
    The antinociceptive effects of centrally administered CDP-choline on acute pain models in rats: the involvement of cholinergic system.

    (...Bla Bla BLa.....:sleep: )...Therefore, it can be postulated that CDP-choline exerts an antinociceptive effect mediated by a central cholinergic mechanism. Activation of specific alpha(7)-nicotinic cholinergic receptors through the activation of presynaptic cholinergic mechanisms appears to be involved in the antinociceptive effect of this drug.
  16. Lotus97

    Lotus97 Senior Member

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    Would it be good to take Choline and/or DMAE (a choline precursor) along with Citicoline?
  17. Misty mum

    Misty mum

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    Hi all :) just thought I'd drop a line and tell you how amazed I am by this conversation. I was looking for information on citicoline when I found you all. Cut a long story short, from what I see here citicoline is an excellent drug except for the side effect of depression. Now, this is interesting because rick Simpsons hemp oil is also an excellent drug except some ppl don't like the side effect of the "high" These ppl now use citicoline as it counteracts the high with the low of the citicoline for an outstanding healing and a balanced emotional effect. :) just thought I would mention it as the opposite may help balance things for you here as well. :)
  18. xks201

    xks201 Senior Member

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    Dopamine convrrts to norepi in everyone
    outdamnspot likes this.
  19. beaverfury

    beaverfury beaverfury

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    adreno likes this.

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