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Anybody else using DIY transdermal B12?

Discussion in 'Detox: Methylation; B12; Glutathione; Chelation' started by Soporificat, Jul 9, 2015.

  1. Little Bluestem

    Little Bluestem All Good Things Must Come to an End

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    I'm doing transdermal methylB12 now. I have Vitamin Research Products' liquid that is intended to be used sublingually.

    Initially I applied it to my upper thighs with Everclear and coconut oil. It would appear to soak in, but later I would see red stains on my pants.

    I switched to my arms and would sometimes see some red in the crease of my elbow. Then I replace the coconut oil with a drugstore lotion and have not seen any more red.

    I think I am getting at least as much benefit as I did from the sublingual tablets.
     
    ahmo likes this.
  2. SJB944

    SJB944 Senior Member

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    Hey @ahmo, was there any particular symptom(s) that made you think of decreasing b12 when presented with folate deficiency symptoms -- rather than simply increasing folate?

    Cheers.
     
  3. SJB944

    SJB944 Senior Member

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    @Little Bluestem do you have to use the same dosage of b12 for trans-dermal as opposed to sublingual?
     
  4. ahmo

    ahmo Senior Member

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    Yes. in the past. For a couple days I increased folate. That brought about adrenal stress symptoms, which I'd had a year ago on high Mfolate doses. So I realized this was not the direction to go. When I changed tactics, lowering B12 instead, all symptoms cleared.
     
  5. SJB944

    SJB944 Senior Member

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    Thanks @ahmo, that's really interesting. Such and individual thing, can't say I've really experienced adrenal stress symptoms from more mfolate.
     
  6. Little Bluestem

    Little Bluestem All Good Things Must Come to an End

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    I am still slowly increasing the dose of the transdermal, so can't say yet.
     
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  7. alicec

    alicec Senior Member

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    I have used sublingual (Enzymatic Therapies), B12 oil and Bluebonnet liquid mixed into a lotion. I find the liquid + lotion to be superior and thank @ahmo for her innovation.

    I found a definite difference in potency between the three though this may just be saying something about my own peculiarities of absorption and response. At best sublingual absorption may be only 1/5, though I calculate it at realistically more like 1/10. Using this estimate I first tried what I thought was aroughly equivalent amount of the B12 oil product (methylB12 alone which the manufacturer claims is 80% absorbed) compared with the sublingual. The B12 oil felt way more potent to me. Later I tried an equivalent amount of the Bluebonnet liquid (assuming 80% absorption) and this felt more potent again.

    I quickly came to the conclusion that the Bluebonnet liquid was the cheapest and best way to take methylB12 in fairly high doses.

    I mix mine into a homemade lotion - ie an emulsion of aqueous and lipid phases using an emulsifier which creates a lipid/water sandwich structure which mimics the skin. This is said to allow agents in the lotion to readily penetrate the skin. In any case the pink cream disappears into the skin rapidly and I can certainly notice the action of the vitamin within a fairly short time so it is definitely being absorbed.
     
  8. ahmo

    ahmo Senior Member

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    :woot::thumbsup:
    You lotion sounds very like mine, absorbing better w/ some water, rather than just lipids. congrats alice.:hug:
     
  9. snowman

    snowman

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    @alicec , may I ask the recipe for your homemade lotion? I'm trying to avoid possible sensitivities to things in long ingredient lists of commercial lotions.

    Btw, the same company that makes the Mega B12 drops with methylcobalamin also makes them with adenosylcobalamin. Holistic Heal or Holistic Health or something like that.
     
  10. alicec

    alicec Senior Member

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    When I first got sick about 15 years ago I had MCS and for quite a few years all I used on my skin was avocado oil. This worked but stained clothes and became so embedded in the clothes that normal washing didn't completely remove it and everything ended up with a stale oily smell. As the MCS settled down I began trying various cosmetics without "nasties" but found I still had idiosyncratic reactions. Eventually I decided to make my own so I could experiment with ingredients.

    The hardest thing to crack was a body lotion because such a large dose is involved. In the end I think it was mainly the MCS diminishing which enabled me to come up with a recipe which worked for me. Certainly there are ingredients in it which sensitive people could have trouble with. If you are very sensitive, use MCT oil and omit essential oils. You might need to experiment with other things.

    If you are new to DIY cosmetics then some reading on emulsion making would probably be a good idea. The emulsifier I use, OliveEmulse, is one of a new generation which makes a so-called multi-lamellar emulsion (ie stacks of lipid and aqueous layers) as opposed to the droplet structure of older emulsions (tiny droplets of lipid dispersed in an aqueous solution or vice versa). This structure helps improve the absorption of active substances in the cosmetic.

    The attached recipe is fairly forgiving - ie some deviation from the proportions won't affect the final product, but don't deviate too much - the emulsion may crack. Many alternative ingredients are possible - I suggest some - and note things that really are essential. Finally I usually weigh ingredients so amounts are expressed in grams. Just for ease of calculation the recipe is for 100 g (ie roughly 100 ml) but it is very difficult to make a satisfactory emulsion with this small amount. I usually make some multiple of this - minimum 200 ml.

    If any problems please ask.
     

    Attached Files:

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  11. alicec

    alicec Senior Member

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    I thought after the above post that sensitive people should also use water rather than hydrosols.
     
  12. juniemarie

    juniemarie Senior Member

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    @ahmo @alicec @Little Bluestem I think this is the latest thread on transdermal mb12 What brand of oils have people settled on? The Bluebonnet? Other brands? Was the final word on which type of product to mix the oil into as far as getting good absorption a water based lotion? Someone on one thread mentioned Curel I want to try this and looking for updates on whats working for everyone.
    If there is a more resent thread that answers my question can you point me to it…..I seemed to keep running into threads that went up during peoples experimentation
     
  13. juniemarie

    juniemarie Senior Member

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    Doing a few more searches and see that another product from b12oils.com in Aus. seems to be another favorite.
    I went on their site but I couldn't find anything about how much mb12 you get in a drop.
    For those who have tried this and the Bluebonnet…@ahmo I think you have……has anyone figured out the cost per mg of mb12 between b12oils and Bluebonnet. Does one work better than another?
     
  14. ahmo

    ahmo Senior Member

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    @juniemarie I'm using Bluebonnet 500mcg drops. Somewhere on the other transdermal thread, garyfritz worked out how much cheaper the DIY was compared to B12 oils. About 1/4, as I recall. I started out using a body butter, which is grease only. then switched to a lotion, so water + grease. My sense is that there might be better absorption w/ the lotion, though I'm not certain.

    I'm unclear on the exact dosage the B12 oils delivers. I found it mystifying that I seemed to have the same response to 1 squirt B12oil as to using several different amounts of Bluebonnet drops. That is, I have some remaining B12oils, have used it time to time to see the differences, and it seems to be the same.

    In favor of the commercial B12oil, they certainly have gotten an efficient mix. A tiny drop, compared to a fingerful of lotion + drops. But the DIY sinks in very quickly, so I'm staying with it. There are a couple people investigating buying bulk B12 crystals, if any of that turns out to be high quality and affordable, that'll be another choice.
     
  15. Dazey

    Dazey

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    I've been using @ahmo's method of Bluebonnet 5,000mcg drops mixed with skin lotion. It worked well at first, but after about a month I noticed that some of my symptoms were gradually returning. From what I've read on this site, I came to the conclusion that the methylB12 was degrading even though I kept the bottle in the fridge as directed.

    I returned to using sublingual Jarrow's methylB12 (which I'd previously had success with) for a few days and my symptoms diminished again. I can't carry on using them sublingually because they're harsh on my teeth and gums, so I've been experimenting with crushing them and using them transdermally.

    I've been doing this for about a week and it's going well so far. At first I mixed the powder with a little water then added the lotion, but I've found I get a far more powerful effect just directly mixing the powder with the lotion. I've been using quite a cheap supermarket branded thick body lotion (it's called a butter), but it has water listed as the first ingredient.
     
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  16. alicec

    alicec Senior Member

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    The MethylB12 oil delivers 0.75 mg per squirt and the Adenosyl/methyl B12 oil delivers 1.8 mg adenosyl and 0.7 mg methyl. They say that 80% of this is absorbed.

    The Bluebonnet liquid plus lotion is much cheaper though we have no idea how much is absorbed - I did work it out assuming similar absorption to the B12 oil but can't lay my hands on the figures.

    Actually over time I ran into problems with both the B12 oil and the Bluebonnet liquid and have backed off both for a while. I thought it might have something to do with the peculiarities of my own metabolism but did consider that there might be something in the B12 oil base that didn't agree with me. In light of @Dazey's experience I'll have to consider that the Bluebonnet might be losing its potency, or maybe there is something about the transdermal route that we don't appreciate. Will have to mull on this.
     
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  17. Little Bluestem

    Little Bluestem All Good Things Must Come to an End

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    I have been using Vitamin Research Products liquid methylB12 for about 2.5 months with continuing good effects. I put the B12 drops on my skin, mix in alcohol, then cover the area with lotion. I used coconut oil, which is fat only, at first but prefer the lotion.
     
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  18. drew

    drew

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  19. Little Bluestem

    Little Bluestem All Good Things Must Come to an End

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    I think I am doing a little better. I am also using more. 1.5 mg/day instead of 1 mg/day. I notice, at most, a small improvement from anything I take.
     
  20. drew

    drew

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    @Little Bluestem

    Does the liquid stain the skin? Why did you decide to switch from tablets?
     

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