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Anybody else using DIY transdermal B12?

Discussion in 'Detox: Methylation; B12; Glutathione; Chelation' started by Soporificat, Jul 9, 2015.

  1. Soporificat

    Soporificat

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    If not, why not? :D

    OK, the reason I ask is that it seems to be the cheapest, easiest, and safest way to get high doses into the bloodstream, but the fact that I don't hear more of you all doing it is making me wonder just how effective it is.

    So far, Ahmo seems to be the only person here who is committed to DIY transdermal B12.

    I've been using Ahmo's technique (with a couple of tweaks to it), but I still haven't gotten noticeable responses to the B12. However, I'm not sure if I have ever gotten much of a response to the b12, except when I first started on it, so I feel I am not a good guinea pig for this. I plan on upping my dosage in the next week, and maybe this will give me more info.

    Just fyi, this is the my version the transdermal b12: 1/2 squirt of Bluebonnet 5000 mcg b12 mixed with 1/2 teaspoon Everclear, 190 proof (ethanol helps the b12 to pass through, supposedly--hat tip to @Hip for this info). I smooth that on the skin, then before it is dry I dip my fingers into some sunflower oil (expeller pressed, organic) and rub that on top until the whole thing pretty much disappears. Then, I'm careful to rinse off my hands, because I don't want whatever b12 is left on the skin on my hands to be exposed to light. I do this twice a day (so, 5000 mcg total).

    I know that at least some of the b12 is getting through, because the first couple of weeks I wasn't so careful about not exposing the b12 to light and I ended up with some nasty lesions on my face from the degraded b12.
     
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  2. GhostGum

    GhostGum Senior Member

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    Why not would probably be because of scepticism that this method is reliable? Although this is the first I have heard about it, that would probably be another reason. But I am incredibly comfortable with the transdermal I buy and its cost, and single 1000mcg doses have been very noticeable most of my time using it.

    Also seems like a bit of fiddling around?
     
  3. ahmo

    ahmo Senior Member

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    I've been doing this for about 6 months now. Happy.:)
     
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  4. Soporificat

    Soporificat

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    @ahmo -- you are one of those who gets clear responses from B12, right? And, you get symptoms if you get too little B12?

    If this technique is delivering more B12 than sublinguals, then I really don't get why more people aren't doing it. It's really easy and cheap, and there is no downside, unlike sublinguals, shots, and vaping. It's easy entry.

    I guess I would order the B12 oil, except I'm in the USA and I don't want to have to rely on international mail for something so important. Also, this other method is 1/4 of the price, maybe? I haven't calculated it, but it's somewhere around that.

    I know that some are experimenting with smoking it, but that is fiddly and the burning and inhaling of the other chemicals involved would concern me.
     
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  5. ahmo

    ahmo Senior Member

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    I agree.

    It's been a long time since I've had B12 deficiency symptoms. Folate deficiency can show up quite easily. I self-test, body and symptoms seem to agree that this method is working brilliantly for me. garyfritz calculated it out at about 1/4 price. Maybe not so much for me, as I don't have the postage costs. But, OTOH, I have poor currency conversion via iherb, though not so terrible with a $23 item.

    I started my first bottle in Feb. A few times I used the commercial oil instead, as I haven't finished it. But by and large, the one bottle of Bluebonnet seems to have lasted 5 months. Is that possible?? I've only just started my 2nd bottle, I'm quite sure. I agree with you about the smoking. It sounded great, but then became way to fiddly for me, and yes, concerns re additives, etc.
     
  6. Soporificat

    Soporificat

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    Well, the bottle has only 60 droppers full, and you are taking one dropper per day, right? (5000mcg) So there is no way that it could last 5 months. Maybe you have used the oil more that you thought. But, to me that probably means that you truly aren't noticing any difference between the two methods.
     
  7. ahmo

    ahmo Senior Member

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    No, I was initially using 1 dropper full less 8 drops. After adding FMN form of B2, and shortly after 3-day fast, I needed less, now a dropperful less 12 drops, so that's actually less than 1/2 dropper, I think, dropper generally 20 drops/ml, I think.

    No, I find no difference. Yesterday I used the commercial oil, today the DIY. They've certainly found a very efficient way of making the commercial oil, it's a tiny dot of substance, compared to the 1/2 dropper of Bluebonnet.
     
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  8. Soporificat

    Soporificat

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    @ahmo -- what do you think is the equivalence between the commercial oil and the Bluebonnet method?

    I'm currently using a full dropper per day (divided into two doses), and I'm wondering how much of the commercial oil I would need to get that kind of dosing.

    Also, since you used to use the sublinguals, what do you think the equivalence is to the sublinguals? I feel like I read one of your comments somewhere where you said that you were taking 20mg sublingually of the Enzymatic B12. Am I remembering wrong? Do you find that is the same effective dose to about 1/2 dropper of the Bluebonnet?
     
  9. ahmo

    ahmo Senior Member

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    @Soporificat I find it strange: I waited to try the commercial oil until I was at a stabilized dose of MB12, which was 20mg/day sublingual, split into 2 doses. I've used 1 squirt of the commercial oil from then, until now, when my need for B12 has reduced. That is, I found after the interventions of this past 6 months, that I was experiencing symptoms of folate deficiency. I increased my dose for a couple days, but then recognized that I should be decreasing my B12, instead. This decrease has been by nearly 1/2 dropperful. And yet, when I substitute with the small amount of remaining commercial oil, I'm still using 1 squirt, without any folate deficiency signs/symptoms. So I don't understand it.

    I'm sure the commercial oil is very well thought out. Somehow they've gotten maximum efficiency into a tiny amount. But why the same dose works in spite of my now needing less, :confused:
     
  10. AlmostEasy

    AlmostEasy

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    I was about to make this exact post until I saw it just now. I also have a pretty awesome product I haven't seen mentioned

    Methyl B12 Mega Drops (Google them I can't post a link apparently) - 375 mg / tincture with 1 drop = 1 mg. This works out to about $0.09 / mg at a price of $30 total. This blows away anything else I've ever seen for mb12. If you need less than 1 mg this might be an issue. If you're only needing 1 mg transD that's 375 days of mb12. That's over a year for $30.

    With only 1 drop needed I'm not sure if mixing it with anything is even necessary. I've ordered a bottle and it will be here next week and I'll report back with results. Currently I'm needing about 25-30 mg sublingual Solgar mb12 to deal with symptoms so I'm theorizing from others experiences I may need about 1-2 drops total if I absorb at similar rates. I'm going to test different transdermal sites and probably intranasally as well.

    I feel like I'm going crazy or I'm missing something, same as OP, I don't know why more people aren't doing this?? I doubt there is anything magical about the B12 Oils except they are in a light proof container.

    Anyways I guess I'll find out for myself soon enough if this works for me or not. Wish me luck!
     
  11. Soporificat

    Soporificat

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    I will be very interested to hear what your experience with it is. Just a note, though, that even though it is concentrated, you will still need a carrier to get it through the skin. My experience is that otherwise it mostly just sits on top of your skin. When I rub in the ethyl alcohol and oil I can see the deep red color disappearing through my skin. When I try to rub in only the liquid, it just stays red and smears around until it dries red.

    Also, I really don't think one or two drops will equal 25-30mg sublingual. i think you will need at least 5mg transdermal. But, again, I will be very interested to hear how it goes.

    EDIT: I looked up the drops and it's cool how concentrated they are. I hope it is a good and strong product. I mean, that I hope the B12 is fresh and not degraded. If it is high quality I would definitely switch to it.
     
    Last edited: Jul 12, 2015
  12. Soporificat

    Soporificat

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    Huh, that is weird! I when things don't make sense, lol!

    Did this change happen when you started the new bottle of bluebonnet, maybe? Maybe it was a stronger/better batch of B12?
     
  13. AlmostEasy

    AlmostEasy

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    What were you using specifically when it just dried on your skin? This study, which I've heard conflicting feelings about, claims the following:

    "Because of the reports that dimethyl sulfoxide (DMSO) enhances the percutaneous absorption of many organic molecules, experiments were conducted in the laboratory rat to determine whether DMSO would bring about the absorption of vitamin B12. Somewhat unexpectedly, it was observed that the vitamin was well absorbed through the skin from either DMSO, an ethanolic or aqueous solution."
    • can't post links yet I guess? very annoying, can't figure out what is preventing me from submitting

    I believe that is suggesting that water works just as well. I suppose I'll find out once I try it. It should be easy enough to find something in a wal-mart or something to make it work. Any suggestions for oils or creme's to use?

    Also what makes you think 1-2 mg wouldn't equal that? There's several people in the b12 oils thread claiming their 0.75 mg squirts = 20 mg of subL. 1-2 mg is a definite overkill at that ratio. I'm not saying it's impossible I'm just wondering what made you claim that.

    Yeah it makes me glad it's in a dark bottle at least, I've ordered from there before and their products seemed of fairly high quality from what I can tell but you never know if they're aware of these kinds of things. One would hope. I just couldn't pass it up at that amount for the price, it's almost so low that it makes me suspicious lol.

     
  14. Soporificat

    Soporificat

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    When I tried it without a carrier I used the B12 liquid straight from the bottle. It seemed to just sit on top of the skin. Now I use ethyl alcohol (Everclear, 190 proof) and sunflower oil. I put on the B12 liquid, then put about an equal amount of ethyl alcohol on top and rub it around. Then, before the alcohol evaporates I dip my fingers in some oil and rub that in. I can clearly see the B12 disappearing into the skin when i do this.

    Ahmo makes his/her own creme mixture. I can't remember what is in it, but it sounded very high quality.

    The reason i don't think 1-2mg would equal 25-30 mg sublingual is that Ahmo found 5mg transdermal was the same as 20 mg sublingual, when using the DIY method. I'm guessing that the commercial B12 oil has a more effective carrier, or it is better emulsified, maybe?

    I am currently using 5mg DIY transdermally and there is no way that is the equivalent of 133 mg taken sublingually! I'm not that sensitive, but I am sure that even I would notice that mega of a dose, especially given the relatively low amount of folate that I take.

    About the price, Bluebonnet is pretty much the same cost. It is $23 a bottle for the 5mg dose per dropper product, and there are 60 droppers in the bottle for a total of 300 mg of B12 per bottle. So the Mega Drops is not in scam territory. I just meant that there can be such variation in methylB12 quality, since it is a little bit fragile, and needs to be handled properly.
     
  15. AlmostEasy

    AlmostEasy

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    Ohhh my bad, I must have been looking at the 1000 mcg Bluebonnet tincture. Alright that makes more sense. Yeah that's actually a bit cheaper too, though you're dealing with more liquid each time. Well I'll see if the Mega B12 works soon.

    Could you point me in the direction of some literature on how the whole ethanol / oil thing works? The ethanol is a carrier I assume then the oil does what exactly?
     
  16. ahmo

    ahmo Senior Member

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    That was my first thought. But on reflection, I believe it had to do with changes I'd made: From January, intensive anti fungal/bacteria protocol; April (?) starting FMN for of B2, which slashed my need for a variety of supps; followed by, a few weeks later, 3-day fast, intended to reset immune system, stimulate stem cells. Somewhere in there, I'd have to check notes to verify, but likely after FMN, I began having folate deficiency symptoms. Decreased B12, and later decreased further, until no folate deficiency sx.
     
  17. Soporificat

    Soporificat

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    I think it is actually the oil (or creamy moisturizer) that gets the B12 through so effectively. I use the ethanol because it seems to help the B12 liquid and the oil to merge better. That's just what I'm observing.

    I don't have any links for you, but the stuff about the oil being important was on Phoenix Rising. Something about how the B12 can't get through the lipid barrier very well without a lipid to assist it.

    Also, Hip ( a member here) mentioned something about ethanol being a good carrier, but I can't find where I read that, sorry. But, really, now that I think about it, what I'm observing is that it's after I apply the oil that the B12 really starts to disappear. However, i think the ethanol helps the whole thing along. I've tried it without the ethanol and it doesn't seem to work as well.
     
  18. AlmostEasy

    AlmostEasy

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    Well the transdermal is working well with the Mega B12 Drops. It comes in an eye dropper basically, totally opaque black plastic.

    I'm using about 4 mg in the morning, 2 mg on each thigh with olive oil and just some rum I had laying around and it's working, but it's taking a full 6 hours to kick in and I really break through for about 2 hours then I kind of slowly decline back to baseline over the next 3 or so, so it looks as if I'm not hitting a high enough level to last the day. I'm not too keen on using much more as I just can't afford it at the moment. Also I definitely do not see it seeping into my skin in any way shape or form. It just remains there but hits pretty hard once it gets going, I think I may notice a slight dissipation of the color over time but I'm not certain, though it certainly doesn't happen instantly.

    Has anyone else had this experience? Where is everyone else applying and are results differing for you based on that? How long does it take to kick in for you? Ideally I'd like to be saturated all day but that may require some serious dosing.

    I also tried transscrotal and as extremely hilarious as that is it does kick in pretty fast, I need more time to repeat to ensure it wasn't a fluke but it seems to hit in 20 minutes and it strangely enough doesn't peak as hard as the thigh and it stays in serum for a while but yeah just doesn't peak as hard.

    I'm a little disappointed at how much it's requiring but the effects while it is working are amazing. I felt good today. I haven't peaked on mb12 for that long ever before and it was really something. Neurological brightening for sure. I'm going to experiment with locations to try and see if I can make it more efficient in any way but for me to remain broken through all day that might require quite a lot.
     
  19. Soporificat

    Soporificat

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    Sorry it's taken me so long to respond. I haven't been on the forum for a while.

    Three things help the b12 sink in: 1) Exfoliate the skin--scrub scrub scrub!; 2) Use a different section of skin each day/each application--also, each section of skin should be fairly large, such as your entire belly, or lower back and butt; (Edited to say: I'm a small woman, so adjust according to size) 3) Really massage it in until you see it sink it. It takes less than a minute, but the massaging matters.

    Also, I've tried various combinations of things to get the b12 to sink in, and I'm finding that drugstore moisturizer works best, surprisingly. I use Curel.
     
  20. ahmo

    ahmo Senior Member

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    I first thought it was all about the oil. I was using a cocoa, shea butter mix, very thick. Then switched to a more water-based lotion, and then had to decrease the number of drops. It absorbed better w/ the lotion mixture than with a grease-only butter.
     
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