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any amount of methyl causing side effects?

Discussion in 'Detox: Methylation; B12; Glutathione; Chelation' started by cdny170, May 18, 2016.

  1. cdny170

    cdny170

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    I have recently experimented with the use of methyl b-2 that seemd to cause improvement for the first two weeks until i woke up one day with severe brain fog and a stiff neck. Brain fog/Derealization/joint pain as well as many other issues have been big issues for me for years, so it took a while for me to pinpoint the source. I then stopped the methyl b-2 and what do you know? those issues subsided significantly(back to my base levels) I then tried to experiment with the methyl b-2 again but starting at a very small dose, ALL symptoms came back full force so i discontinued. Today i went and got some Jarrow methyl b-12 from vitamin shoppe and broke the pill into fours. Once again, all symptoms came back full force and i am currently suffering.
    I am a little confused as to why even the tiniest amount of methyl would set these symptoms off. I have been reading about methylation for some time now but i seem to be lost in my own journey.
     
  2. aaron_c

    aaron_c Senior Member

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    When you say methyl b-2, what are you referring to? For example, did you mean methyl b12 or 5-MTHF?
     
  3. cdny170

    cdny170

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    i apologize for the typo. i meant Coenzymated B-2(Source Natural) and Methyl B-12(Jarrow) With the b-2, although my mood felt better at first..i was experiencing very frequent urination and diarrhea. I don't know if it was by coincidence but once the extreme brain fog and aching joints came i ended up very sick with a fever. This is when i discontinued the B-2. When i decided to try it again (very small amount) the brain fog/aching immediately came back which is exactly what happened when i tried the small amount of Methyl b-12 today.
     
  4. aaron_c

    aaron_c Senior Member

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    You may know this already, but riboflavin-5-phosphate (R5P) is not methylated. What differentiates it from riboflavin is an added phosphate group. I mention this because it seemed like you were drawing a connection between sensitivities to R5P and methyl B12 via their both having a methyl group--which R5P does not. Oops, I was totally wrong about that. R5P (and I think Riboflavin?) has two methyl groups, as you probably saw. OK, I will back up and say that I have never heard of R5P or riboflavin acting as a methyl donor--and assuming this is true, then it would not directly contribute to methyl sensitivity the way taking mB12 or 5-MTHF would.

    Have you seen anyone saying that riboflavin does act this way?

    Are you taking other b vitamins too?
     
    Last edited: May 18, 2016
  5. cdny170

    cdny170

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    I am not taking any other B vitamins other than amount i get from food sources. I have read numerous threads stating Riboflavin had these side effects but it was usually due to excess dosages or jumping into it too quick. Once my symptoms started it seems even after a layoff the smallest amount sets me off. I tried supplementing with Potassium as well which seem'd to make things even worse. My joints and neck were in severe pain and the derealization/anxiety were through the roof.
     
  6. cdny170

    cdny170

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    for a long time now I've suspected i have some sort of mineral deficiency and i'm wondering if it could be the culprit. About 4 years ago when the derealization/brain fog started i also developed MDDS(self diagnosed) i feel completely spaced out, unable to concentrate and as if i'm on a boat. I belong to a yahoo MDDS support group where i've stated that i believe this all to be connected.
     
  7. ahmo

    ahmo Senior Member

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    Northcoast NSW, Australia
  8. Gondwanaland

    Gondwanaland Senior Member

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    It is always the same story... Honeymoon until the balance with the other B vitamins goes out of whack...

    For me personally, in addtion to taking the whole B complex, at bedtime B2 combined with B5 work wonderfully.

    Spaciness usually is overmethylation (B3 deficiency) or high histamine (in this case the B3 supplementation caused a B6 deficiency and possibly copper).

    B2 is the vitamin that activates all the other B vitamins, according to the thread B2 I love you.

    Additionally, B2 acts in the breakdown of hormones and neurotransmitters, so it has to be well balanced with B6 (mainly) for proper serotonin metabolism and histamine breakdown.
     
  9. aaron_c

    aaron_c Senior Member

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    This is a long shot, but did you take the potassium away from food? I get a very uncomfortable kind of heartburn and panic from taking too much potassium--and I tolerate much more potassium with food than without.

    Also a long shot, but have you tried any kind of carnitine? Freddd claims it is the other essential piece of the puzzle (the four pieces are methylfolate, methylcobalamin, potassium and carnitine). Here is a thread where someone found that acetyl-l-carnitine fixed their derealization and brain fog. Google "derealization carnitine" and you'll find a number of positive stories.

    I see on this MDDS website that "klonopin [aka clonazapam, a benzodiazepine], benzodiazepines and amitriptyline may have beneficial effects in the treatment of MDDS" (bracketed text added by myself). Benzodiazepines stimulate GABA receptors, so perhaps part of the problem is insuficient GABAergic activity and/or excessive glutamatergic activity. This possibility is supported at least by this doctor's use of IV magnesium as the primary treatment for MDDS (magnesium blocks L-type calcium channels, thus preventing some calcium influx that would otherwise propagate glutamatergic signaling).

    The only link with B12 I can see is that if you were experiencing a mild methyl trap (cellular folates being trapped as 5-mthf and unable to convert to other forms because of lack of B12) and then you took B12, that would produce Tetrahydrofolate (THF) which is needed to convert histidine to glutamate instead of histamine--usually a good thing, actually. But maybe in your case the extra glutamate was particularly problematic?

    I'm not saying the last paragraph is even probably true...but it might be worth a try.

    How many mcg of B12 are in your lozenges? I think Jarrow makes some high dose lozenges.

    Has anything helped with your MDDS?
     

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