anxious and wired, need some help please!

[alice111]

so this being wired and very anxious is something a lot of people seem to deal with on here. I myself have had it on and off, however lately it has been very constant, and very severe. The one plus is that my energy has improved a bit (I was pretty much bedbound, but am now able to putter and do some things around my room) - the problem is that I feel soooo wound up!!!

The anxiety is really extreme and overwhelming, and the feeling "wired" feels like its taking its toll, like i dont have enough energy to "keep up" with this half of my body that is all reved up.. i hope that makes sense?

anyway, I would really like some suggestions for things that can help with this!

I have tried a lot of things including magnesium, progesterone cream, and "hip"s suggestion of N-A-G, but nothing seems to help..
the only things that seem to take the edge off so far are alcohol and xanax.
ok, any suggestions would be very appreciated!

 

[WoolPippi]

Sorry you too are experiencing this. It's not good, you are exhausting your bodily resources. I think the cause of this wiredness is the body.

In my view you (and I) are constantly revving up the stress response in the body. This is also where my suggestion for remedy lies: Gupta Amygdala Retraining. It's a way of stopping the constant initiating of the stress response. It sounds like mumbo jumbo, mainly because it uses NLP techniques to communicate with the subconsious/nervous system.
But for me it worked.

The other thing that worked for me is taking away the bodily stresses but you're already doing that (magnesium, progesteron etc)
I will mention my surprise how sensitive my body was in that regard: any sugar, any noise, any alcohol, any grains, any vegetables would have me spinning for a day (or two weeks!). Only when I cut them all out was I able to become calm. They didn't cause calmness, they just stopped running interference.

My main causes of anxiety where digestion (cured that by living on chicken soup, full fat cream and dark chocolate), a shortage of Progesteron (not the sex hormone but the adrenal precursor. I supplement with oral pills, not npc) and malnutrition (full spectrum minerals, based on Yashko).
Also sounds (ear mufflers and enjoying the silence)

All day every day I am practising to relax my body, release tensions, be souple, breathe easily. Untill this is a new habit.
I think the wiredness and anxiety is mainly caused by the body, not the mind.

 

[ahmo]

Histamine and sulfur can both send the brain into anxiety states, among other things. For me the first relief I got from severe anxiety, inflamed nervous system was eliminating gluten and dairy. Another contributing factor can be pyroluria. See the questionnaire below. Low B12 can lead to neurological problems. So can metal toxicity. Do you know what shifted you from bedbound to being able to putter?

http://www.hputest.nl/evraag.htm Online questionnaire to suspect pyroluria

Diagnosing and Treating Vitamin B12 Deficiency‬
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=QqjyAeOLyKM

The Many Faces of Histamine Intolerance http://healthypixels.com/?p=1044

‘Brain Allergy’ and ASD - T. Theoharides, MD, PhD‬https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=9QbZp3WcC1Q

 

[A.B.]

Alcohol / Xanax working suggest that GABA plays a role, which is tied to health of the intestinal microflora. If you have gut symptoms that suggests you should try out probiotica with lactobacillus strains for a week or two. I recommend a high dose so you can quickly see whether it works or not.

 

[jeff_w]

The anxiety is really extreme and overwhelming, and the feeling "wired" feels like its taking its toll, like i dont have enough energy to "keep up" with this half of my body that is all reved up.. i hope that makes sense?

anyway, I would really like some suggestions for things that can help with this!
ok, any suggestions would be very appreciated!

Hi @alice111 -

Tryptophan 500mg combined with Melatonin 3mg calms me down and puts me to sleep. Probably very worth trying. Good luck.

 

[Lillybelle]

so this being wired and very anxious is something a lot of people seem to deal with on here. I myself have had it on and off, however lately it has been very constant, and very severe. The one plus is that my energy has improved a bit (I was pretty much bedbound, but am now able to putter and do some things around my room) - the problem is that I feel soooo wound up!!!

The anxiety is really extreme and overwhelming, and the feeling "wired" feels like its taking its toll, like i dont have enough energy to "keep up" with this half of my body that is all reved up.. i hope that makes sense?

anyway, I would really like some suggestions for things that can help with this!

I have tried a lot of things including magnesium, progesterone cream, and "hip"s suggestion of N-A-G, but nothing seems to help..
the only things that seem to take the edge off so far are alcohol and xanax.
ok, any suggestions would be very appreciated!

Hi @alice111
Sorry to hear about the anxiety. I used to suffer from it all my life before I got ME/CFS. Now very little except more of a frustration anxiety. Anyway suggestions:

1. Meditation: breathing single pointed meditation focussing on the breath. You can get lots of phone apps now that give you a guided meditation.Or you can get one of Ian Gawler's ebooks: ie: "You can Conquer Cancer" where he gives a range of different meditation techniques for healing.

2. If you're too tired to read you can get audio book or app

3. Baclofen. Lots of docs use this for ME?CFS and Fibro. This is a CNS (central nervous system) relaxant does not have the negative addictive properties of xanax and not nearly as whack you out feeling.
Baclofen is a GABA agonist and works on exactly the same area of the brain as alcohol without the poisonous efects of alcohol on liver and brain.

4. Lying down stretching and strengthening exercises. There has been positive research evidence that ME/CFS patients do much better doing strength and stretching in a horizontal position. Stretching in particular facilitates a calming of the nervous system, blood flow and lymphatic drainage if done correctly.

5. Physio roller. Your neuromuscular system is related. Nerves and muscles. By lengthening your muscle tissue and rolling out your muscles your nervous system is relaxed. A Physio Foam Roller alows you to roll on the floor on your back on your quads and on your gluts. This stimulates relaxation through yr entire body.May not need the drugs!!!
Just Google Physio Foam Roller: They cost about $50 and equal to a great massage.

6. Acupuncture has in clinical trials of ME patients shown improvement in pain, muscle tension and nervous system disorders. If you can afford it and get there.

7. Feldenkrais classes: all done on your back no effort required. Reorganises the nervous system.

8. Vitamin B12 injections OR oral sublingual : iherb source naturals 5 mg

Maybe thats why I dont have anxiety anymore. I use most of these.

 

[xrunner]

ok, any suggestions would be very appreciated!

Hi @alice111
You can't get rid off anxiety with supplements although some can certainly help symptomatically as xanax does. And if your anxiety has immune causes, every psychological energetic or "mind over matter" approach is pretty much useless, except for very short-term relief.

If benzos like Xanax help you, you may want to look, as a substitute (they can't be taken together as they interact) at the herb Ashwagandha, it works in a similar way on GABA receptors plus it may raise serotonin.
There are other good supplements, some already mentioned in previous posts, but in my experience Ashwagandha has a longer half life than most supplements which you need to take continuously every few hours.

However, if you want to try and get rid off anxiety for good you may have look at the problem in a different way, by trying to get to the root cause of it.
I used to suffer from an extreme wired feeling with deep anxiety which used to attack me viciously and in my own case I permanently eradicated the problem by:

a) stopping all supplements I was taking. Whilst some may increase your "energy" they seem to do that by overstimulating your nervous system as I found out, particularly if your immune system or gut isn't ready.
b) Testing for Bartonella (Henselae), a bacterial infection often (but not only) found in Lyme disease that can cause severe anxiety and other negative emotional states. This alone resolved about half of my symptoms.
By the way Lyme disease can also cause anxiety as other chronic infections.
c) Working on your gut by removing bad bacteria and/or parasites (but some can also be around the body) all of which can deeply affect your mood and cause anxiety which in my case accounted for perhaps the other half.

Best wishes.

 

[Jarod]

so this being wired and very anxious is something a lot of people seem to deal with on here. I myself have had it on and off, however lately it has been very constant, and very severe. The one plus is that my energy has improved a bit (I was pretty much bedbound, but am now able to putter and do some things around my room) - the problem is that I feel soooo wound up!!! !

You may want to consider if you are taking too much vitamin B6. It builds up in the body and can make one very "wired but tired". I personally avoid taking a "B complex" for this very reason.

There is a simple blood test that can be done for high B6 and this is how I accidently stumbled across my B6 levels being too high.

Good luck!

 

[perchance dreamer]

@alice111, I just have a minute, but did want to mention the Alpha-Stim, a device for cranial electrical stimulation, for your anxiety.

There are so many great supplements for anxiety and the feeling of being wired, but the Alpha-Stim is the most effective for me and has an effect that supplements don't. It also helps me with sleep.

You can read about it on this web site. It requires a prescription. At one time a chiropractor could write it. Not sure if that's still true.

If you are interested, you need to find a distributor who will let you rent one to see if it helps you. It's expensive, so you want to be sure. Good luck! If you contact the company, they will tell you about distributors in your area and answer any questions.

http://www.alpha-stim.com/

 

[alice111]

thank you for all the replies!
@ahmo I will check out your links, thank you! no, I dont really know what has shifted me from bedbound to putter, but this has happened to me before where my energy improves but I also get this wired anxiety (it usually happens with my menstrual cycle around PMS). im not sure what its about.. but my OI improves as well.

@Jarod Have not increased B6, I have started niacinamide (125mg) and riboflavin (100mg), but I was already having this before that.. it may have worsened though. could either of this also "build up"?

 

[alice111]

@xrunner

You can't get rid off anxiety with supplements although some can certainly help symptomatically as xanax does. And if your anxiety has immune causes, every psychological energetic or "mind over matter" approach is pretty much useless, except for very short-term relief.

a) stopping all supplements I was taking. Whilst some may increase your "energy" they seem to do that by overstimulating your nervous system as I found out, particularly if your immune system or gut isn't ready.
b) Testing for Bartonella (Henselae), a bacterial infection often (but not only) found in Lyme disease that can cause severe anxiety and other negative emotional states. This alone resolved about half of my symptoms.
By the way Lyme disease can also cause anxiety as other chronic infections.
c) Working on your gut by removing bad bacteria and/or parasites (but some can also be around the body) all of which can deeply affect your mood and cause anxiety which in my case accounted for perhaps the other half.

this is very much the case!!! it's so physical.. does not matter what I am thinking or how much "relaxation" I do - I will do that, it will help, then 10 minutes later its back with a vengeance!
what did you do for bartonella?
what did you do for gut/ parasites?

 

[alice111]

also, to anyone out there, I don't know if this is helpful but I have been getting "hot flashes" - each time that happens I get a lovely extra surge in anxiety, start sweating.. it's fun. and no, this is not menopause I am 25 years old...
could this mean that the anxiety and wiredness is hormone related though?

 

[xrunner]

@alice111
I had extensive antibiotic treatment for Bartonella and Lyme, these in conjunction with very high doses of probiotics helped my gut as well, for parasites I took Ivermectin, Flagyl, hypothiocyanite and a couple of herbs also helped and the probiotic Gcmaf.

 

[ahmo]

@alice111 I was getting a lot of hot flashes, and I gather many w/ ME do as well. Mine stopped when I got the B12 right.

 

[alice111]

@ahmo were you low in b12?

 

[ahmo]

@alice111 Certainly was. After 6 months on Freddd's Protocol my neurological symptoms resolved. Including life-long insomnia. Most of my cognitive abilities have returned. I'm now using 20mg MethylB12, holding the tablets in my upper gum to dissolve slowly, 1/2 AM, 1/2 midday. You can find a link to Freddd's Protocol doc in my signature. Also from someone else, a Dummies Guide to Methylation, which might give you some hints re whether this is the direction to go w/ your symptoms.

Here's how my tired-but-wired out-of-control nervous system resolved: First, removing gluten, dairy; 2nd big shift: pyroluria supps; 3) Removing histamines and sulfur (high thiol foods) 4) lithium stabilized my mood swings 5) B12/folate, as stated above 6) When detox quite clearly focussed on my adrenals and removed a big burden there, life-long irritability, agitation, low tolerance for frustration resolved. Now, when I feel irritable I know I need a coffee enema for detox. I still need to use supps to help w/ eliminating histamines, quietening mast cells, and for ridding system of ammonia. But these are now management practices, no longer lurching from crisis to crisis or overwhelmed by symptoms.

Mast cells...another thing to learn about. There are so many things that impact on us to create so-called anxiety. So-called because it's so often nothing to do w/ psychology or emotions, but deep physiological processes. As someone said above, gut bacteria is a big part. I just heard that 70% of our neurotransmitters are in the gut! When you find yourself in this situation, on this forum, you're just beginning a process of research and trial and error, working to understand which of the many things might be the ones affecting you. Often there are several, interwoven causes or syndromes. But at least you're on the trail, and there is lot's of help.

This vid re mast cells is oriented toward autism. but ME shares many of the same characteristics.
‘Brain Allergy’ and ASD - T. Theoharides, MD, PhD‬https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=9QbZp3WcC1Q
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=9QbZp3WcC1Q

If you want to go deeper into methylation:
“The Role of Methylation and Epigenetics in Brain Disorders” presented by William J. Walsh, PhD
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=W14kkO61Ano

If you have the sense that methylation might be part of your issue, then there's a series of vids from Caledonia. But don't stress yourself w/ all this information!!!

Caledonia: Methylation Made Easy

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=o4uqEDK6BvM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=9QbZp3WcC1Q

 

[zzz]

For someone in your situation, and based on the PMS and hot flash connection, certain antidepressants are often extremely effective at relieving these symptoms, as they are known for their anxiolytic effects. Specifically, sertraline (Zoloft) for long term use and desipramine for short term treatment (with effects starting within 20 minutes and lasting a few hours at a time) can be very helpful. It's best to start with low doses on each. If these symptoms occur only a few days each month, you may be able to relieve your symptoms by using these drugs only around those days.

Large doses of L-theanine (200 to 400 mg) can also be helpful, but generally aren't as effective as the other two drugs.

also, to anyone out there, I don't know if this is helpful but I have been getting "hot flashes" - each time that happens I get a lovely extra surge in anxiety, start sweating.. it's fun. and no, this is not menopause I am 25 years old...
could this mean that the anxiety and wiredness is hormone related though?

Very likely. ME/CFS can mess with hormones in all sorts of interesting ways, and hormone imbalances can definitely cause anxiety and wiredness. The antidepressants I mentioned are known to be effective for hormone-induced anxiety, and many doctors prescribe them (especially sertraline) to women for PMS-caused anxiety.

 

[CFS_for_19_years]

If these symptoms occur only a few days each month, you may be able to relieve your symptoms by using these drugs only around those days.

Antidepressants can't be used off and on. Often at the initiation of an antidepressant there is an initial period of agitation, sort of like PMS. Then if you were to stop them you will go into discontinuation syndrome, i.e. hell, much worse symptoms than being on any antidepressant - nausea, headache, loss of appetite. Rule of thumb is to taper antidepressants over a 2 to 4-week period. Symptoms will be less intense if you are only on them a few weeks. I would recommend only going on an antidepressant if you can commit to it for a few months.

http://psychcentral.com/lib/ssri-discontinuation-or-withdrawal-syndrome/0005734

these symptoms may include “a flu-like reaction, as well as a variety of physical symptoms, that may include headache, gastrointestinal distress, faintness and strange sensations of vision or touch.

I've used L-theanine for short periods; it can also cause gastrointestinal distress (speaking from my own experience) and I recommend starting at 100mg/day until you see how it affects you.

 

[Jarod]

@Jarod Have not increased B6, I have started niacinamide (125mg) and riboflavin (100mg), but I was already having this before that.. it may have worsened though. could either of this also "build up"?

Not sure about the b3 or b2 making you wired or building up. Some of this stuff varies by person, so what works for me might not work exactly for you. Follow your gut instinct.

A little calcium citrate can help with calmness and sleep also, but can cause constipation so important to keep things moving. Difficult to digest and process calcium so it requires a lot of diligence to get it working for ya. Might be used in the NO cycle, there is a recent "phoenix rising" article about that.

Sometimes when healing, we can feel worse because of endotoxins so make sure you are detoxing best you can. Lots of clean water, suanas etc can help with that. Getting some kind of reaction tells you something, and the trick is to decipher what that information means to you.

Some prescription Drugs contain fluoride, so I personally avoid those. One more thing to detoxify. Zoloft or Prozac are definite candidates for containing flouride.

 

[zzz]

Antidepressants can't be used off and on.

From personal experience, I would have to disagree here. The higher the dosage, the more difficult it is to do this. But in low doses, which are often all that is needed when a problem occurs a few days a month, this is quite feasible for many people. Some people can't do this; some people can't tolerate these drugs at all. Like most aspects of medications, it varies on an individual basis.

The same goes for withdrawal. From the first sentence of your source:

After some people stop taking a type of antidepressant known as a selective serotonin reuptake inhibitor (SSRI), they experience a variety of symptoms.

The key word here is "some". As with starting the drug, it is much less likely for someone to get withdrawal symptoms from a low dose than from a high dose. For a high dose, most people need to taper up to the drug when starting and taper down from it when coming off. This would not be done for occasional use. Doing such tapering and not going faster than your body can tolerate avoids the hell you describe.

These are prescription drugs, and taken under the direction of a knowledgeable doctor, they can be taken without problems by most people.

I've used L-theanine for short periods; it can also cause gastrointestinal distress (speaking from my own experience) and I recommend starting at 100mg/day until you see how it affects you.

You're the first person I've heard of to have significant reactions to L-theanine. I guess our group is the place to look for people who have reactions to drugs, though. So sure, it doesn't hurt to try a 100 mg dose first to see how you tolerate it.

Zoloft or Prozac are definite candidates for containing flouride.

Neither drug contains fluoride; nor do any of the other SSRIs. Zoloft contains no form of fluorine at all. Prozac and many other SSRIs contain fluorine (not fluoride) that is strongly bonded to carbon, which leaves it unreactive. From Wikipedia:

The carbon–fluorine bond is a polar covalent bond between carbon and fluorine that is a component of all organofluorine compounds. It is the strongest single bond in organic chemistry—and relatively short—due to its partial ionic character. The bond also strengthens and shortens as more fluorines are added to the same carbon on a chemical compound. As such, fluoroalkanes like tetrafluoromethane (carbon tetrafluoride) are some of the most unreactive organic compounds.