1. Patients launch $1.27 million crowdfunding campaign for ME/CFS gut microbiome study.
    Check out the website, Facebook and Twitter. Join in donate and spread the word!
Ergonomics and ME/CFS: Have You Hurt Yourself Without Knowing It?
Having a chronic illness like ME/CFS can make it hard to avoid problems that come from bad ergonomics. Jody Smith has learned some lessons the hard way ...
Discuss the article on the Forums.

Antidepressants

Discussion in 'General Treatment' started by m1she11e, Aug 18, 2012.

  1. taniaaust1

    taniaaust1 Senior Member

    Messages:
    7,944
    Likes:
    4,920
    Sth Australia
    I dont know what a CMP test is. As far as Im aware, blood volume isnt generally tested and something which is more so tested in research labs (so there must be a way to actually test this).

    Anyone who has ME should suspect they "may" have this issue but one thou can come to an fair idea if low blood volume may be partly involved in causing symptoms by various indications of it.
    Some of these indications would be:
    - thirst to which another cause cant be found or that someone drinks far more then usual to feel better some
    - orthostatic intollerance eg headaches and dizziness when standing (not enough blood getting to brain), finding that one improves some on laying (blood gets to head better then).
    - Finding standing is worst then walking. (less blood gets to the head when standing then when moving).
    - POTS (in ME is usually caused by low blood volume). Other orthostastic autonomic issues may indicate too.
    - finding that treatments which raise blood volume help
    - those who have issues with low blood volume are usually affected by heat more then those who dont have this issue. So feeling worst on hot days is another indication.
  2. Rand56

    Rand56 Senior Member

    Messages:
    491
    Likes:
    174
    Myrtle Beach, SC
    hi tania

    CMP is a blood test..stands for Comprehensive Metabolic Panel. From the list of symptoms you gave for low blood volume, I don't believe that would be the case with me.
  3. Rand56

    Rand56 Senior Member

    Messages:
    491
    Likes:
    174
    Myrtle Beach, SC
    Has anyone ever tried Reboxetine <Endronax/Vestra>? Better yet, has anyone tried both Reboxetine and Strattera <atomoxetine> and favored one over the other? Someone once recommended me take Reboxetine for my depression. I have not done so yet. I'm just looking for alternatives ahead of time just in case Wellbutrin doesn't do the trick for me.
  4. heapsreal

    heapsreal iherb 10% discount code OPA989,

    Messages:
    7,220
    Likes:
    4,524
    australia (brisbane)
    savella might also be a good option to go with the above meds when looking into things that improve noradrenaline function.
    http://www.definitivemind.com/forums/index.php this site might interest u with the stuff your researching although the site isnt that active anymore.
  5. Rand56

    Rand56 Senior Member

    Messages:
    491
    Likes:
    174
    Myrtle Beach, SC
    Ok thanks Heaps. I got the site saved and I'll check it out.
  6. nanonug

    nanonug Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,248
    Likes:
    385
    Virginia, USA
    Hmm, interesting. Have you considered gradually discontinuing the SSRI while keeping Wellbutrin?

    If you don't mind sharing, what was the Wellbutrin dosage and for how long did you take it?
  7. IreneF

    IreneF Senior Member

    Messages:
    460
    Likes:
    423
    I'm not taking an SSRI. I'm taking an SNRI. And no, I'm not going to discontinue it for any reason. It's the only thing that works.

    I don't remember the dosage or the length of time I took bupropion/Wellbutrin, although for a time I was taking the generic XL formulation mfd. by Teva that the FDA recently announced was no good.

    Right now all I want is to recover from CFS. Everything else is secondary.
    heapsreal likes this.
  8. nanonug

    nanonug Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,248
    Likes:
    385
    Virginia, USA
    Oh, of course! I am of the opinion, though, that a pure NRI (such as Strattera) or DNRI (such as Wellbutrin) is better for ME/CFS than an SSRI or even an SNRI such as Cymbalta (this one exhibits a reuptake inhibition of serotonin 10 times that of norepinephrine, for example).
  9. Valentijn

    Valentijn Activity Level: 3

    Messages:
    6,280
    Likes:
    8,966
    Amersfoort, Netherlands
    I can't tolerate SSRI's either, or even supplements that should increase serotonin production - and this is somewhat odd because my blood platelet serotonin levels were quite low.

    My norepinephrine also tested low, however, and I've had very good results for my OI with the NRI Strattera over the past 11 days since I started taking it. It was a little intense the first few days in a buzzed sort of way, but not beating the crap out of me like the SSRI did. And after that it settled down very nicely, and I'm far more functional than I was two weeks ago. I can take showers now, and load the dishwasher, and walk up and down stairs without needing to lay down for half an hour :D
    taniaaust1 likes this.
  10. Rand56

    Rand56 Senior Member

    Messages:
    491
    Likes:
    174
    Myrtle Beach, SC
    hi Valentijn

    Glad to know the Strattera is helping you. If I may ask, do you suffer any insomnia from it? I'm on Wellbutrin which I started about a little over 2 weeks ago and my sleep sucks real bad. About the last 5 nights I've only averaged about 3 hours of sleep at night. Hoping as time goes by it will alleviate that problem but who knows. That's why I'm asking you because I need to find out more about some alternatives if for some reason I need to ditch this Wellbutrin at some point.

    Rand
  11. nanonug

    nanonug Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,248
    Likes:
    385
    Virginia, USA
    I am also on Wellbutrin XL. Sleep doesn't suck for me. However, I also take 10mg of lithium orotate with dinner. I have been taking lithium orotate at this dosage for years now for anxiety and works very well for me: anxiety is gone and sleep is great.
  12. Valentijn

    Valentijn Activity Level: 3

    Messages:
    6,280
    Likes:
    8,966
    Amersfoort, Netherlands
    I had trouble a few nights ago when I first started taking a 2nd dose in the afternoon. I took it an hour earlier yesterday (1:45pm), and had no problem falling asleep at 10pm. I also take N-acetylcysteine before going to bed, since I have high glutamate levels and the NAC seems to help bring them down so my brain can shut down.

    I'm keeping a daily log with effects/side-effects/etc I'm experiencing while starting Strattera, most of which I'm posting on the thread at http://forums.phoenixrising.me/index.php?threads/strattera-atomoxetine.19755/
  13. Rand56

    Rand56 Senior Member

    Messages:
    491
    Likes:
    174
    Myrtle Beach, SC
    nanonug

    I still have some Lithium Orotate laying around so I'll start out low with it and and go from there.

    Valentijn

    Thanks for the link on the thread. I'll keep an eye on it.
  14. beaverfury

    beaverfury beaverfury

    Messages:
    429
    Likes:
    430
    West Australia
    Hi Rand, I took Edronax for four weeks long before i got cfs. I hardly got any sleep the whole time.
    It was a nightmare! They just made me keyed up, with no good effects to offset the lack of sleep factor.

    Everyones different though. I had a friend taking them, they worked fine for her and she could sleep.

    I keep pumping David pearces Good Drug Guide on PR. People will get sick of me. But i just love it!
    I cant paste the link for some reason. Just google Biopsychiatry The Good Drug Guide.
    Still gives me a laugh and rightfully puts some shite ADepressants in their place.
  15. Rand56

    Rand56 Senior Member

    Messages:
    491
    Likes:
    174
    Myrtle Beach, SC

    hi beaverfury

    Sorry you had insomnia taking it. Yeah you're right, we can all have different reactions to the same stuff. Thanks for the source on the drug guide. Will definitely be a good reference for me to check out.

    Rand
  16. beaverfury

    beaverfury beaverfury

    Messages:
    429
    Likes:
    430
    West Australia
    Anyone tried moclobemide ?
  17. PhoenixDown

    PhoenixDown Senior Member

    Messages:
    258
    Likes:
    235
    UK
    Because the "it takes weeks to work" line is BS. I've taken about 4 different anti-depressants and all of them had an effect within 24 hours, none of them "built up".

    I think it's a line they just tell so that if your depression naturally resolves for one reason or the other, they can claim the outcome was due to the treatment. They know statistically some people's depression will just resolve anyway, treatment or not.

    In any case there is no objective follow up test carried out to demonstrate this long term "build up", just like they don't measure your serotonin.
  18. PhoenixDown

    PhoenixDown Senior Member

    Messages:
    258
    Likes:
    235
    UK
    Is this a too much adrenaline/cortisol, "adrenal fatigue", or adrenaline-stress-feedbackloop type of hypothesis? A lot of them have been put forward over the years, none of them have helped explain much. Wouldn't too low/too high adrenaline or cortisol show up on a test? Granted doctors rarely do proper (periodic through out the day testing).
    Serotonin metabolises to melatonin...
  19. Rand56

    Rand56 Senior Member

    Messages:
    491
    Likes:
    174
    Myrtle Beach, SC
    hi Phoenix

    With all due respect, I don't buy your line of "it takes weeks to work" is BS. When you say you had an effect within 24 hours are you referring to your depression was totally relieved within 24 hours? When you took these AD's, were you really diagnosed as having clinical depression? If your depression lifted within 24 hours, that's awesome, but if that is the case, you are definitely not the norm. If that was the norm, wouldn't you think a prescribing doc would say "listen, we are going to trial this for no more than 2 days. If it doesn't work, we will try something else". Yes, from the get go you can feel something from the AD, but "lifting" depression in 24 hours, I don't think so, not the majority of people anyway.

    Rand
    taniaaust1 likes this.
  20. PhoenixDown

    PhoenixDown Senior Member

    Messages:
    258
    Likes:
    235
    UK
    No Worries
    I had an effect, the symptoms of what ever illness I have were never long term treated by the medication. I was diagnosed by my primary care practitioner, then again at a different date by both a mental health nurse & a psychiatric doctor as having "Depression".

    Of course I don't believe depression is anything other than a dust-bin / wastebasket term with irresponsibly wide and unobjective diagnostic criteria (the practitioner has no idea what's actually wrong with the unfortunate patient) . The interesting thing is that my "Depression" wouldn't resolve when I was happy or had better "psychosocial" factors. However they ignored me saying that and diagnosed it anyway. The term is basically being abused just like the terms CFS/ME & Fibromyalgia are given out when the doctors can't be bothered to investigate, or believe on faith that the patient's implied existential unhappiness is causing symptoms. I think this will change with in a 100 years time.

    For those who advocate for "there are such n such objective tests for depression", I suggest they advocate for using a term other than depression, when that particular test is positive. I think a lot of harm has come to patients by the label.

See more popular forum discussions.

Share This Page