The 12th Invest in ME Conference, Part 1
OverTheHills presents the first article in a series of three about the recent 12th Invest In ME international Conference (IIMEC12) in London.
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Antibiotics or not?

Discussion in 'Lyme Disease and Co-Infections' started by Aerose91, Jan 6, 2015.

  1. Aerose91

    Aerose91 Senior Member

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    This seems so widely debated to me.

    Some preach antibiotics being nothing but dangerous, others that you have no chance of recovery without them, and as early on as possible.

    What is others' success here with abx? I know that for us, lipid therapy and methylation are also important and preferably done before abx but can these be done at the same time if it is in fact imperative to do antibiotic therapy?

    Also, do Lyme, Babesia and Bartonella all require different specific antibitoics?

    In light of a recent positive Lyme test I'm curious if I should investigate other doctors since mine won't even consider abx. The severity of my brain symptoms are horrifying and I know the clock is ticking.
     
    justy likes this.
  2. Martial

    Martial Senior Member

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    I am treating my lyme disease with herbal anti microbriols via. Buhner protocol and am doing fantastic. The idea that you need high doses of IV antibiotics and all of that was based on the old ideas with the bacteria. Certain doctors previously thought you could just blast the system with a high load of antibiotics but that has proven not to be nearly as effective for most cases.

    Some people do report significant improvement but its not enough across the board to make it the first thing worthwhile. For some they may need a pulsed or maybe certain time using antibiotics but it definitely doesn't need to go overboard. The herbal protocols like Buhner, Cowden, Bryon White, Zhang, etc all work the same way and can fully put people into remission itself. It is really just about finding what works best for you and what you respond best with, though that can sometimes take a bit of time.

    My plan was just use the lowest risk strategies and see what yields me the greatest results, after all this is our bodies we are talking about not business deals and financial scheming where risk can take a whole different meaning.
     
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  3. Aerose91

    Aerose91 Senior Member

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    Hey man, really glad to hear you're doing better. I know that PC therapy and methylation should come first and I'm going to do that once I get away from mold. Are you incorporating the herbal therapies in with methylation and detox stuff? Or did you do one before the other.
     
  4. Martial

    Martial Senior Member

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    I did them around the same time, to me I just had to make sure that I was methylating well enough to handle the bacterial die off. Thanks for the kind words too, I definitely see the light at the end of the tunnel with all of this now. The de tox stuff I do is just exercise, neuro anti toxins, dry skin brushes, and well just having a super clean diet for now.
     
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  5. justy

    justy Donate Advocate Demonstrate

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    Hi Aerose - you do need specific abx for co infections and some docs think you should treat Bart first - its very hard to treat and causes a lot of brain symptoms. I spend some time on Lyme groups, a lot of the people there have been misdiagnosed with CFS/M.E for many years and once on appropriate treatment a lot are improving - this usually includes abx at some point in the healing journey.

    Have you checked you the work of Horowitz? it looks pretty good to me. He covers Biotoxin illness as well. There is an interview with him on another thread in te Lyme section.

    Good luck.
     
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  6. Aerose91

    Aerose91 Senior Member

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    Thanks for that, Justy. I have still come back negative for babesia and Bartonella but those are just quest tests. I still want to do IgeniX but can't get a doctor to offer it. Regardles, I'm very curious about Lyme, bart and babesia because those are the only people who seem to share the same brain symptoms as me. Do any of these infections include PENE though? Most of the reason my brain is this bad is because of overexertion in the beginning. Any time I expend energy it seems to harm my brain further and do nothing to my body. Could this be characteristic of lyme?

    @Martial

    Really happy for you, man. As much as I like talking to you I hope I don't see you here any more soon because you're out living a full, kickass life.
     
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  7. Sushi

    Sushi Senior Member Albuquerque

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    There is some cross-over, but generally different antibiotics are used.
    The antimicrobial herbals seem to hit a wider spectrum. Personally I am doing some antibiotics and some herbals and, yes, have found improvement, though it is slow gain.

    For me, very much I'd say. At times when I have increased the dose of the antimicrobials or the antibiotics, PENE was also reduced.

    Best wishes with this.
    Sushi
     
    justy likes this.
  8. Aerose91

    Aerose91 Senior Member

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    Thank you, sushi
     
  9. Martial

    Martial Senior Member

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    I would just treat for what you already know for now. You can try an herbal protocol for the lyme and some of the things you could use would cover other pathogenic loads regardless. Along with helping de tox and methylation it will help to make a ton of headway to recovery. It is just a matter of putting all the pieces together I suppose. Thanks for the support as well! I am definitely not hanging around the internet as much because I have been so out and about lately, nevertheless I still like coming here and other places to offer tips and suggestions for others, and to learn more myself to keep good health for myself and to help others around me for the future as well! I hope I start hearing more about your successes soon enough too man!
     
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  10. justy

    justy Donate Advocate Demonstrate

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    Martial that is such great news! I hadn't realised you were getting so much better. Good luck with continued improvements!
     
  11. Aerose91

    Aerose91 Senior Member

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    My plan is to get out to the desert in a couple months and do everything at once while there. I'm hoping that if I pay everything at the same time I may start to see some effect. If it is in fact Lyme or any other specific pathogen I may have to do bug killing afterward.

    In terms of herbal treatments are they the same regardless of Lyme, babesia, bartonella?

    Again, great to hear you're starting to get back into life, man. Appreciate that shit.
     
  12. Martial

    Martial Senior Member

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    Thank you Justy, Indeed I have been doing incredibly well with treatment as of recent. Working out again, going out with friends, working part time, and doing some school related stuff. I still have a bit more way to go but it is generally much easier for me to function like a normal person these days.

    That could work but its not like you need to go hardcore all at once, all you really need is to at least start some kind of treatment first. Baby steps can be a big word for this I suppose. Anyways if you start working on methylation it will help de tox but the biggest thing is just being on something that will actually take care of your infectious load.

    Things like the Cowden protocol or Buhner does cover multiple infections as do some of the other protocols I mentioned. Buhner however has certain things added in based on co infections or symptoms you may have. It really is something you just got to experiment yourself with outside of the standard herbs.

    Recovery and what you react best to can be a bit different between each person, there are however a few core herbs that seem to be well tolerated for most and does take care of a bulk of issues. Yeah thanks again man, definitely going to bring a lot more awareness and education to infectious disease like this in the future. Give more people the knowledge to know they have more choices then they think and that no one is ever a hopeless cause.
     
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