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Angular Chelitis

Discussion in 'Detox: Methylation; B12; Glutathione; Chelation' started by LaurieL, Nov 25, 2010.

  1. LaurieL

    LaurieL Senior Member

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    Continuing on with Freddds protocol and I have now developed a case of angular chelitis on the right side of my mouth. Any input? I did a search for this, but it doesn't narrow down the thread to the particular post in which mentions this. My search led me again to the 170 some odd page thread concerning methylation. :thumbsup:

    Laurie
     
  2. velha508

    velha508

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    Hi LaurieL,

    This is caused by a deficiency of one of the B's. I had this on occasion prior to starting Fred's protocol. Are you taking the B-right 2x's per day? If not try that first...

    Post back and let us know how it's going..
    Velha
     
  3. LaurieL

    LaurieL Senior Member

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    What I picked up over at wrong diagnosis

    I picked up several contributing factors to angular chelitis.

    1. Use of whitening toothpastes or mouthwashes.
    2. Vitamin B2, B3, or iron deficiency.
    3. Folate deficiency despite taking the aforementioned B's.
    4. Inadvertantly taking a folate antagonist.
    5. Celiac Disease or other malabsorption factors
    6. Bacterial Infection
    7. Candidiasis
    8. Zinc deficiency


    Hi Velha,

    Yes, I am taking the B-right twice a day. I also have been taking in additional extra B1 and B2. I am up to and have been maintaining 6 x 5000 mcg of the Yarrow methyl B-12 and 6 x 3000mcg of the Country Life Dibencozide (adensyl B) for a couple of weeks. As well as 4 x 800 mcg Solgar metafolin Folate.

    The recommended adjuncts and some others I am using are:

    - Egg Yolk Lecithin 600mg x 1 per day ( I cannot tolerate anything soy)
    - Vitamin C/Rose Hips 500mg total 4-6,000 mgs per day
    - L Carnitine Fumarate then ran out, Acetyl L Carnitine 250 mg x 2 per day
    - Selenium 200 mcg x 1 per day
    - Cats Claw 1200 mg x 6 per day
    - Tumeric 1000mg x 3 per day
    - Vitamin E 400 IU per day
    - Beta-Carotene 20000 IU per day
    - Fish and Flax Oil EPA 400mg/DHA200mg/ALA 530mg x 4 per day

    Toxin mix:
    Apple Pectin Fiber
    Physilium
    Marshamallow Root
    Slippery Elm Bark
    Yucca Root

    Most of the adjucts I had already been taking prior to starting the methylation recommendations.

    Laurie
     
  4. Freddd

    Freddd Senior Member

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    Hi Lauriel,

    I had it all my life from early childhood. It went away within a week after starting Metafolin about 4-5 years ago. After being done entirely for about 3 years it then came back 3 or 4 days after starting glutathione (precursors) stayed for 6 months until I followed somebody's suggestion of trying more Metafolin after doing some more reading. It was gone within a week once again after I stepped up to 4800mcg/day of Metafolin. For me it is the most sensitive fastest indicator of methylfolate deficiency. It came back again in 4 weeks when I substituted 800mcg of Folinic acid for 800mcg of methylfolate, more slowly but just as surely, and it went away in less than a week after restoring the Metafolin and increasing the dose to 7200mcg a day of Metafolin so I wasn't sitting right on the edge of deficiency.
     
    sregan likes this.
  5. LaurieL

    LaurieL Senior Member

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    Would seem we have then had a similar experience. That post I posted back in November, and at that time I had found some info by you on raising the metafolin to 4800mcg. So I raised it while still taking my increased doses of B1 and B2. At that time it went away in the following weeks. But it again reared up and my lips became involved when the weather changed drastically. At that same coincidence, I had also added folinic acid in addition to the upped metafolin. It was mentioned by Rich VanK that folinic acid addresses others components not touched by metafolin. (Although, I am still trying to find what those "others components" actually are.)

    When I added the folinic acid, (and the coincidental cold weather snap occured at the same time), is when I developed the second case of it yet again. So I upped and am now sitting at 6400 mcg metafolin and dropped the folinic acid with an almost full resolution to my AC currently. I have just been recently noticing that I do much better with higher dosing of metafolin. But at my current state of knowledge, I couldn't explain why yet.

    BTW, I am a new poster, and I started posting when you had left. I am glad to see you back. I have many questions, but I still don't know how to articulate them quite right yet. So much to learn.

    Laurie
     
  6. LaurieL

    LaurieL Senior Member

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    Freddd,

    You had mentioned having this all your life. In a differing context, I have always had a problem with B vitamins and folate, due to all the anitbiotics and chemo I have been through in my earlier years. By chemo, it was chemotherapuetic doses of chemo antibiotics. I haven't had AC all my life. I did have a few small boughts of it when younger, but it resolved quickly. Only in the last 11 years when I developed CFS and then other illnesses, did I suffer from a horrendous bout in which left horrible scars at the corners of my mouth and took more than a year to resolve. Since that time, I have had it many times. Nothing as bad as that one occurence, but it had been problematic.

    Laurie
     
  7. Freddd

    Freddd Senior Member

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    Hi Laurie,

    I have a solid mass of scars all over the corners of my mouth from decades of AC. I believe that they got infected at times complicating things and cold weather made it worse, or maybe lack of vit D from sunlight or something. I spent my summers outside as much as possible from a young age. Until I tried Metafolin nothing ever made them go away entirely though they waxed and waned.
     
  8. sregan

    sregan Senior Member

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    I started ramping up on MFolate and am now seeing this. I did some searching on the web. Getting various possible causes other than Folate deficiency mentoned by Freddd...

    1. B2 Deficiency

    2. Fungal/yeast

    3. Bacterial

    4. Both Fungal and Bacterial

    and other theories....

    NOTE: If this is a good indicator that you need more MFolate you probably don't want to try any of these below. It's not often that we get such an indicator of when our bodies need something. It's like a gift. If however it's not responding to more MFolate then by all means...


    How to remedy:

    1. "Angular Chelitis is inflammation usually caused by a combination of staphylococcus aureus and Candida albicans. Miconazole is effective against both these microorganisms which is probably why it is a better option than other anti-fungal products alone."

    2. "Just doing a follow up, I cured by angular chelitis by using clotrimazole cream. I did exactly what this girl said with rubbing alcohol (drying up the scab so it can cure) followed by the cream. For the first couple of days I put it on about 7 times a day b/c I just wanted this damn this to go away. I saw results after 2 days, right now it's day 3 and all I pretty much have is a scar which will probably fade soon. If you're using the cream IT IS IMPORTANT TO CLEAN WITH RUBBING ALCOHOL FIRST."

    3. "Wash area 2 times a day with antibacterial soap and dry well. Apply petroleum jelly. Coat area with a good amount. Apply the jelly as often as needed. The jelly will cut off oxygen and help reduce the pain."

    4. "Cortisone 10 ointment literally gets rid of this in a day."

    5. "The anti fungal cream works for me too but some angular chelitis is caused by a bacterial infection rather than fungal. In that case neosporin will work for that. you just have to try both and see which is the cause of yours."

    6. "Hey try an antiseptic oil like tea tree or orange and as a mosturizer use a mixture of coconut oil 1 tbl spoon to 1 tsp glycerin"

    7. "Zinc oxide works as well!! I have used it and it shares the same components that the other would for why it works but a plus would be that zinc also helps with inflammation"

    8. "LISTERINE AND RAW HONEY WILL WORK"

    9. "So another thing I've heard to try is salt water and sun"

    10. "Since it's antifungal, Myrrh essential oil does the trick."

    11. "You can also use Olive oil as it has anti-fungal properties plus seals the area from saliva when it is applied. Only down side is it has to be reapplied often as it dries up. "
     
  9. NilaJones

    NilaJones Senior Member

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    I get chelitis over my whole lips, since childhood. It diminishes greatly if I eat cheese or red meat daily. I don't know what the nutrient is, but it's something in those.

    Methylfolate and B12 supps do not affect chelitis, for me.
     
  10. sregan

    sregan Senior Member

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    tyramine perhaps?
     
  11. Freddd

    Freddd Senior Member

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    Concerning AC and similar lesions, many things can affect cell formation. What we see as the purported cause is at that moment, the most limiting item which causes the "fail".

    The peculiar nature of this is apparent for instance in going from partial methylation block which has a mix of folate and b12 deficiency symptoms and methyltrap which suddenly changes to worse folate symptoms despite it being a worsening of the b12 deficiency. These same fail points are also there even when the cause is lack of Vit D or some other B-vitamin or C or magnesium etc. So find the "fail" symptoms doesn't always point one at the real most limiting factor. Generally that's why I use combinations of symptoms of different types to try to pin it down. What are other symptoms affected at the same time that are not epithelial lesions? Each person has to learn their own body and symptoms combination.
     
    sregan likes this.

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