Phoenix Rising supports the Millions Missing global day of protest
Phoenix Rising is delighted to support the demands being made in the ME/CFS community’s first-ever global day of protest …
Discuss the article on the Forums.

Angular cheilitis driving me crazy

Discussion in 'Detox: Methylation; B12; Glutathione; Chelation' started by chilove, Jan 28, 2015.

  1. chilove

    chilove

    Messages:
    327
    Likes:
    133
    Hey all,

    I'm hetero for compound MTHFR, CBS, COMT, DAO and HNMT... have histamine issues, chronic fatigue, EBV, and am recovering from Lyme disease. I dropped mfolate and switched from mb12 to hydroxyb12 because I thought the histamine issues were from overmethylation but now I have a wicked, painful case of angular cheilitis. Any advice? Start back on the mfolate?

    Thanks!

    Audrey
     
  2. Sidereal

    Sidereal Senior Member

    Messages:
    3,095
    Likes:
    17,172
    Could indicate riboflavin (vitamin B2) deficiency.
     
    Sherpa and Violeta like this.
  3. chilove

    chilove

    Messages:
    327
    Likes:
    133
    Oh yes, I forgot to add that I started on 100mg daily of B2 three days ago and no improvement yet.. maybe I need more...
     
  4. ahmo

    ahmo Senior Member

    Messages:
    4,340
    Likes:
    6,528
    Northcoast NSW, Australia
    Any relationship between this timing and the AC? There's a thread called No Love for B2...
     
  5. sregan

    sregan Senior Member

    Messages:
    672
    Likes:
    379
    Southeast
    Was my understanding that boosting methylation should help lower histamine.

    Please see this post (click here)

    The thread title is "Angular Chelitis" and lot of good info there
     
  6. Sidereal

    Sidereal Senior Member

    Messages:
    3,095
    Likes:
    17,172
    Starting a huge dose of B2 can paradoxically worsen deficiency symptoms. There is a long thread here somewhere called B2 I love you that explains why this may happen.
     
  7. chilove

    chilove

    Messages:
    327
    Likes:
    133

    I had the AC BEFORE starting the B2. I started the B2 in hopes that the AC was caused by a B2 deficiency
     
  8. PeterPositive

    PeterPositive Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,426
    Likes:
    1,033
    From my experience it does.
    When I started the methylation protocol I had issues with B12 which made my histamine sensitivity worse. B12 can cause histamine release. However I went low and slow and these symptoms gradually subsided.

    Today I can take relatively high doses of B12 (10-15mg) and have no histamine reactions. Also my sensitivity in general has improved. Not fully solved, but clearly improved.
     
  9. chilove

    chilove

    Messages:
    327
    Likes:
    133
    100mgs is a large dose?
     
  10. Sidereal

    Sidereal Senior Member

    Messages:
    3,095
    Likes:
    17,172
    Too large to start off with for some people, yeah.
     
  11. minkeygirl

    minkeygirl But I Look So Good.

    Messages:
    4,678
    Likes:
    4,647
    Left Coast
    @PeterPositive can you tell me what histamine issues feels like? Please tag me so I get an alert. My rage is cured! Yahoo
     
  12. acrosstheveil

    acrosstheveil Senior Member

    Messages:
    314
    Likes:
    107
    i have lyme too. lots of r5p really made my angular chelitis bad. I stopped it and have minimal issues now with it as long as I take at least 4 mg of methylfolate a day.
     
  13. PeterPositive

    PeterPositive Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,426
    Likes:
    1,033
    @minkeygirl I use to suffer from continuous itchy rashes on the wrists, ankles, feet, back etc... Some food would trigger it, such as spinach, tomatoes, potatoes etc... It was pretty nasty. It also caused anxiety, heart pounding, not fun :(

    B12 did aggravate this at the beginning, so I used small-ish doses of 200-400mcg and after a few months I started seeing improvements and I was able to increase the dosage.

    These days I hardly have any histamine symptoms. When they reappear they aren't nearly as dramatic as they used to be. The dry and cold weather usually makes them worse, that's possibly the only thing that can trigger some of those symptoms these days.

    cheers
     
    minkeygirl and Gondwanaland like this.
  14. minkeygirl

    minkeygirl But I Look So Good.

    Messages:
    4,678
    Likes:
    4,647
    Left Coast
    @PeterPositive Thanks. Not sure that's a problem for me. I have zero reaction from 1 mg MB12, not even the brightening talked about. So complicated.
     
  15. PeterPositive

    PeterPositive Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,426
    Likes:
    1,033
    For me it didn't happen overnight (the brightening), it took several weeks to see noticeable changes. Possibly because I was taking low doses.
    The strongest effect for me has been at 4-5mg of methyl-B12.
     
  16. PeterPositive

    PeterPositive Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,426
    Likes:
    1,033
    Yes, it is approximately 5000% the RDA :)
     
  17. Sherpa

    Sherpa Ex-workaholic adrenaline junkie

    Messages:
    625
    Likes:
    778
    USA
    A 'scientifically' recommended dose for resolving B2 deficiency is up to 30mg divided into 3 doses. (like 5mg 3 times a day or 10mg 3 times a day). Not to say you can't take a little more, but these are the recommendation from studies. It may take 2 to 4 weeks of supplementing 3x a day at the right dose to get results.

    I recently heard that B2 deficiency is also a very common reason for overstimulation & side effects from methylfolate. When B2 deficency is resolved and levels are 'just right' methylfolate can then be tolerated in some cases.
     
    Last edited: Jan 30, 2015
    Violeta and Gondwanaland like this.
  18. sregan

    sregan Senior Member

    Messages:
    672
    Likes:
    379
    Southeast
    I definitely felt what I would call "the brightening". When I first started and using very low doses of MB12 and MFolate. It didn't last more than a couple of days but those days completely lifted the veil my life has been lived under and I got a reminder of what I used to feel like and a glimpse of what could be again. Was a very emotional experience. The second time it happened I had stopped that attempt at SMP and started again at a little higher dose. It wasn't was pronounced but had a great day or two.

    I had to assume the brightening was due to the manufacture of neurotransmitters, by increasing methylation, that had been deficient. Possibly the short duration of the brightening was due to receptor adaptation/downregulation (happens when people start psychiatric drugs).

    Now that I've ramped up to 8mg MFolate per day I am starting to have some really good days. GI is starting to stabilize so I assume whatever die off is happening at this state is about over. Mood much better, brain fog much less, energy much better.
     
    SwanRonson, Sherpa and Gondwanaland like this.
  19. chilove

    chilove

    Messages:
    327
    Likes:
    133
    It's gotten worse and is very painful. I guess I'll try upping the methyl folate


    AG.jpg olate
     
  20. sregan

    sregan Senior Member

    Messages:
    672
    Likes:
    379
    Southeast
    Looks exactly like what I had. Was mostly on my left side.

    You can up Methylfolate alone and let the AC be your guide to when you need more MF if it resolves with an increase in MF.

    And/or try any of the other things that have helped others on the internet (had a link in my earlier reply)...Listed Below:

    How to remedy:

    1. "Angular Chelitis is inflammation usually caused by a combination of staphylococcus aureus and Candida albicans. Miconazole is effective against both these microorganisms which is probably why it is a better option than other anti-fungal products alone."

    2. "Just doing a follow up, I cured by angular chelitis by using clotrimazole cream. I did exactly what this girl said with rubbing alcohol (drying up the scab so it can cure) followed by the cream. For the first couple of days I put it on about 7 times a day b/c I just wanted this damn this to go away. I saw results after 2 days, right now it's day 3 and all I pretty much have is a scar which will probably fade soon. If you're using the cream IT IS IMPORTANT TO CLEAN WITH RUBBING ALCOHOL FIRST."

    3. "Wash area 2 times a day with antibacterial soap and dry well. Apply petroleum jelly. Coat area with a good amount. Apply the jelly as often as needed. The jelly will cut off oxygen and help reduce the pain."

    4. "Cortisone 10 ointment literally gets rid of this in a day."

    5. "The anti fungal cream works for me too but some angular chelitis is caused by a bacterial infection rather than fungal. In that case neosporin will work for that. you just have to try both and see which is the cause of yours."

    6. "Hey try an antiseptic oil like tea tree or orange and as a mosturizer use a mixture of coconut oil 1 tbl spoon to 1 tsp glycerin"

    7. "Zinc oxide works as well!! I have used it and it shares the same components that the other would for why it works but a plus would be that zinc also helps with inflammation"

    8. "LISTERINE AND RAW HONEY WILL WORK"

    9. "So another thing I've heard to try is salt water and sun"

    10. "Since it's antifungal, Myrrh essential oil does the trick."

    11. "You can also use Olive oil as it has anti-fungal properties plus seals the area from saliva when it is applied. Only down side is it has to be reapplied often as it dries up. "
     

See more popular forum discussions.

Share This Page