Andy Cutler versus B12 Protocol...

In coming across some info. regarding Andy Cutler's protocol, I'm wondering if anyone has tried both that and the B12 protocol here, and what they'd conclude from each. Or if there's a way to combine the two. And I'm not quite sure where the metals detox/chelation comes in on the B12 protocol...

Tara I ran across this forum on the Cutler protocol forum:
http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/adult-metal-chelation
I have yet to figure out the "protocol" here at all. Though I did learn a
lot reading the main article on B12.

Most metal toxic people have poisoned thyroid and adrenal pathways and B12 plays
a part in making thyroid hormones so we metal toxic are very interested in B12 normalization.

Best
Joe

Hi Tara

I had my 18 amalgam fillings out a few years ago and have recently done about 35 rounds of Cutler's ALA protocol at the same time as doing Rich's methylation protocol, as well as having B12 injections twice a week. I've had no change in my ME symptoms.

Jenny

Hi, Tara.

I expect that you would get different advice from Andy, but for what it's worth, I would suggest doing the methylation protocol first. If it works, it will bring up the sulfur metabolism, which the body's detox system depends on to a large extent, and which is dysfunctional in ME/CFS. That will activate the body's normal ways of detoxing heavy metals and other toxins. Then, if it turns out to be necessary to do the chelation treatment, the body's detox system will be better able to help.

If the body burdens of toxic metals, such as mercury, are too high, so that these toxins block enzymes in the methylation cycle or related pathways, then it will be necessary to do the chelation treatment first.

Best regards,

Rich

Thanks, Rich. That's one of the areas I'm confused about, and concerned with how I'll react to any supplementation treatment. I've had my metals tested by Doctor's Data labs, and my mercury, lead, and aluminum levels are all very high. I'm heterozygous A1298C for MTHFR, have terrible chemical and food sensitivities, and carry the ubiquitous list of other CFS/ME symptoms as well. Many supplements I've tried in the past I end up reacting to (I guess one may call it a type of neurological 'darkening' -- really bad brain fog, cognitive impairment, visual darkening, etc.). Any attempts at detoxing have made me more sick. I'm at a loss for knowing both if I need to detox first, or after addressing methylation issues, as well as how to go about addressing methylation issues without provoking subsequent negative reactions.

Hi, Tara.

O.K., if the levels are "very high," it might be best to try Andy's protocol first. It should take out mercury and lead, but I don't think the sulfur-containing chelators he uses will bind aluminum. For that, you will need something like calcium-sodium EDTA. As you probably know, Andy recommends taking lipoic acid every three or four hours around the clock when doing the active part of his protocol. This is very important, to avoid moving mercury into the brain.

When you have been able to lower the levels of these metals, if you still have a partial methylation cycle block, as indicated by the methylation pathways panel, then you could start with low dosages on the simplified methyation protocol, and work up to the nominally suggested dosages as tolerated.

Best regards,

Rich

For me, the b12 protocol and Cutler protocol appear to work ok together. I would have thought they would complement each other, but Rich knows more about it than I do!

Tara,

Cutler's book includes a support protocol, in addition to chelating supplements, which although less specific than the SMP is similar in what is trying to achieve.

With amalgams, he suggests starting with support until they've been replaced, after which chelation may be added.
The basics include Vitamin C, B complex, Vitamin E, chromium, magnesium, milk thistle and flax oil. There are additional supps depending on individual needs.

I did both but started with methylation first, with a multi-minerals (I didn't take the standard multi) plus chromium and selenium, milk thistle and phoschol as that seemed to cover my needs better.

From reading the book I got the impression that chelation side apart, everything else is supposed to suit individual needs.

All the best.

Isn't he the one that doesn't like Alpha LIpoic Acid? I would not be healing if I didn't use it.

Cutler recommends ALA every 3-4 hours during the active part of his protocol. Good to know it's been helping you, Sallysblooms!

Oh good he does. Yes, a huge part of my supplemement regimine.