Discussion in 'General ME/CFS Discussion' started by lookinglass, Aug 24, 2013.
Does autism ever result from a flu-like illness?
Perhaps not adult autism. But these vaccine damaged infants and children are in a shocking and heartrending physical state. Chronic diarrhea 24/7, head banging, wailing, vomiting, massive weight loss, unsteady on their feet, they have to walk on tiptoes, loss of verbal skills, loss of social skills, and we don't know what else is happening to their toxic little bodies. But I know that I can empathise with some of this! Bin there.
I am an "autism mom" of a 7 year old little boy. He has never had severe autism, probably because my husband and I chose to delay all vaccinations until 2 y/o. At that time our son, "C" was showing signs of sensory dysfunction, had no language, and had severe oral aversions.
In my humble opinion, I think that ME/CFS and ASD are related in some way, but I do not think that I would call CFS/ME "adult onset autism". I believe that my son has had a genetic predisposition to immune, auto-immune, and endocrine dysfunction/disease. My husband' s brother was diagnosed with Grave's disease at around 22 y/o. He also started to have CFS/ME symptoms around the same time. My husband and just had blood drawn for genetic testing, to see if there is something genetic going on with us, that could have been passed on to C.
As the one wise person said in this thread, it IS a matter of timing I terms of age of onset of illness. Most small children are very active and ASD kids often have sensory dysfunction. If they are "vestibular seekers", like my son is, they are going to be very active physically, since activity calms their sensory systems and helps them to become sensory integrated and more calm. There are some children who have autism who are not very active. I think that, generally speaking, ASD kids tend to be hyperactive and have problems with ADHD.
Back to the timing issue....I believe that the underlying illnesses that cause autistic symptoms, begin prior to birth. The parents who are militant anti-vaxers or blame their children's autism only on vaccines are really missing the entire picture of the disease. I believe that C was born with GI pain. These kids are developing, in utero, in women who most likely, have a toxic load in their bodies. Get a child (or fetus/embryo), who has a genetic predisposition, into a woman's body that is loaded with toxins, and the stage is set for the child to be vulnerable to acquiring the underlying illnesses that cause him to have autistic symptoms.
I am not sure if anyone in this forum know who Manuel Cassanova MD is, but he studies the brains of autistic children post mortem. He thinly slices the brain tissue to look at how neurons are have migrated in a different way in ASD kids. They tend to have too many neurons. He studies the "mini-columns" in the brain. Dr. Cassanova did a presentation at Autism One a few years ago, about how too many ultrasounds during pregnancy, may cause the neurons to migrate abnormally in the child's brain. My husband and I had to IVF with ICSI in order to conceive a child. (This is the procedure where they actually inject the sperm into the egg, and then put the embryo back into the mother.). As a result of having IVF, I had at least one ultrasound per week during the first 10 weeks of my pregnancy, at the fertility clinic, because they need to see when the embryo connects to the mother's blood stream (through the yoke sac connecting to the placenta via the umbilical cord.
For the person who mentioned being worried about having a child with autism, since you ha e ME/CFS, there is strong possibility that you could have a child who has autism (IMHO). If you ever have a child, the birth should be 100% unmedicated and you should avoid Pitocin (for induction of labor to begin). And, of course do NOT vaccinate. I think that an epidural is okay, but the the epidural slows the labor down, and then they start Pitocin to speed up the contractions. Also, if you can avoid a c-section, please try to avoid it. Very important "stuff" like beneficial bacteria, are in the vaginal canal. In addition, the child's spinal cord is stimulated by going through " the canal". I think that it is very important that the pressure put on the baby's spinal cord, is especially true for the sensory systems to develop properly. Also, a study just came out that showed a correlation between Pitocin and autism. (Pitocin comes from a cow, and I am not sure if the people who make the Pitocin, are able to get rid of "wild viruses" that the cow may haven carrying. For my labor and delivery, I was induced with 16 hours of Pit. My son's head was being forcefully "smashed" down onto my pelvic bones. C could not reposition himself, because my DO/OB kept writing orders for the Pitocin dosage to be increased.) I ended up with a non- emergency c-section. My son came out of my body with a "dent" in his forehead (where his head had been rammed against my pelvic bones).
I have a good friend who is married to a man who had or has ME. They have 5 children. None of them have autism. My friend gave birth without meds (except for one c-section because of placenta previa), and she does an alternative vaccine schedule with all of her kids. (She homeschools.) My friend's husband is 50ish. He planned his finances so that he could retire at age 45. I am thinking this is because of his illness, although he seems to be doing very, very well at this point in time.
My retired physician father, has either Asperger's or Narcissistic Personality Disorder. I think that he mainly qualifies for the latter, but I guess he could have both at the same time. People who have Asperger's have no social skills. It goes beyond being a person who tends to be a "hermit".
Autism is currently considered a neuropsychiatric disorder, so it is in the DSM 5. It definitely should not be in a mental health diagnostic manual, since it is a medical illness. For C, he retains viruses, has auto- immune bowel disease, and he has CFD. He had Hashimoto's, but since starting GcMAF almost a year ago, he no longer has Hashi's. (CFD is Cerebral Folate Deficiency Syndrome. His methyl folate levels are 29 in his CSF.)
Lastly, most of the children whom I know who have an ASD dx, have constipation much more than diarrhea. Dr. Krigsman has said that, when you look at the biopsies of ASD's children's intestinal lining under a microscope, it is the same pathology with diarrhea or constipation. My son's chronic, daily diarrhea started at about 10-11 months old, which is when he acquired a respiratory virus from me.
I come to this site once in a while, to see what treatments are helping all of you. I need to come more often.
Thank you for reading my post.
Dr. Cassanova's blog, in case anyone is interested.
i have heard of children being diagnosed with autism after a flu-like illness.
my sister was born with terrible constipation..severe....her palms were always soaked from anxiety, even as a baby. at age 6, thanks in part to a very dysfunctional family i am sure, she developed OCD and began withdrawing. now, at age 36, she lives in a group home..having never lived at home permanently since age 8. she has severe ocd, trichotillomania, developmental disorder, ODD, and probably a host of other diagnoses.
i have always wondered, since developing CFS myself, whether some gut flora intervention back then may have saved my sister.
Adults get CFS because their body/brain is already developed when they enter the illness zone. When your body is developing and you are toxic, inflammed and defficient in antioxidants/hormones/nutrients you will become an autist. This is my hypothesis after some years on this.
Autists also have chronic infections and dormant virus. It is the exact same scenario but in a developing body, which will get irreversible damage and abnormalities. We also have leaky gut, lots of "CFS" sufferers.. As someone with Asperger´s this makes perfect sense.
But I think some percent of ME/CFS cases are not related with methylation, adrenal fatigue, thyroid, leaky gut or toxins. I just think a good chunk including mine is undoubtely in that category.
The cases of someone getting it after some illness like mono etc are the ones that doesnt seem related with these things.
Madison yes it is genetic in the root. My sister has also problems sleeping and socializing (I foresee she could eventually develop Adrenal fatigue), my aunt has rheumathoid arthritis and my other brothers have problems concentrating and sleeping as well. All of us have haggard faces that developed over time and are not a healthy/natural feature of our faces.
Thank you both for posting. I forgot to say, like others have said, in a different way, that kids who develop autism have never learned or gained many skills, while most people with ME, have probably already developed basic living skills.
My best friend has a child who has Down's Syndrome and ASD. For her daughter, it was not the flu, but a flu shot, that caused her to develop autism. So, in terms of illnesses, I guess you can say the child does get a virus from a vaccine, and then regresses. Every child is different, just like I know that every one of you have multiple underlying illnesses that are causing ME. Roughly 30% of children who have DS now have autism as well.
I read a study recently that linked linked women who have thyroid disorders and their children having autism. I have T3 dysfunction only. I am not sure if I had it when I was pregnant. Last fall, I did have pretty bad fatigue, flashes of hot and cold in my body, and a difference in my monthly cycle. Once I started taking Cytomel, most of my symptoms have disappeared. I still have a lack of motivation or some fatigue still, but I do not know what it is from.
For me, "autism" is a nightmare that doesn't end. Everything in my life revolves around my son's diet, medications or supplements, and MD visits. I think there is a chance that I retained mercury and/or viruses from 6 shots that I had in the 1990s and 2001. I had some of the worst ones.....MMR, HEP B series, and two flu shots. One woman who I know through Facebook, says that pregnancy is the "best chelator", but I think she meant this in terms of giving viruses to the baby also.
I have an "anxiety gene" in my mom's family. Several of us have gone through periods of have panic attacks. Mix that with my husband's family history, and you get a child who has a strong chance of having immune problems and autism. My late father-in-law had a severe heart attack at age 53, and died 5 weeks later. I have read that 1 in 3 children who have an ASD have a close relative who has had an early onset heart attack. (Kenneth Bock MD wrote this in his book.). Both my brother and my brother-in-law had problems as children with constipation.
GcMAF, MB12 shots, and a dairy free diet have been the most significant factors in in my son's healing so far.
I am wondering if anyone on/in this forum has PANDAS or PITAND? It is a strep infection in the brain. It is very hard to get rid of.
Just about everything that is considered "mental illness" has biological basis. That means medical illness.
I get very tired of the great separation. If something effects the brain in such a way that it effects one's emotions or personality it must be mental and not medical. Ridiculous. For ex. Altzheimers is technically a psych dx.
It's time to get rid of the divide.
I think we like to think that we have control over our thoughts and feelings. Yes, to a certain degree we do. If our brains our healthy that is. Thoughts and feelings are chemical reactions. They are affected the same as other chemicals in our bodies.
beaker It is being discovered just know that the 98% of Junk DNA might be actually a message, software programming for the hardware (bodies). People can and actually do live all their lives without a single original idea or action. It is because of the software embedded in DNA together with the hardware and also the educational apparatus of society (exogenous software of lesser impact).
Moreover, if your hardware is malfunctioning or damaged, the software will have a hard time expressing and abnormalities will occurr. In other words not only we are determined by what they call "instict" and "subconsciosu archetypes" which are the junk DNA/software, but the hardware will determine a vast array of features. Less serotonin, more agression and depression, more testosterone, being a leader, being hypothyroid since a child, you will be smaller, sleep worse, live worse, tend towards failure etc. It is absurd and criminal to ignore this, but allopathy does it on a daily basis except the blavantly obvious cases (hypogonadism, syndromes etc). Mental illnesses are physical illnesses, because our mind it is our brain. When people die or get out of the body experiences and come back they express consciousness boundaries and human emotions (which are programmed reactions) are gone. You are no longer running the software in the hardware. Actually some of them say that they came back because their awakening body/computer sent them messages of fear and worry about their state in no-place and no-body and it felt like they had to come back.
Thank you for your answer about having a kid with autism Madison, that idea is hunting me since i became sick and found out the two illness similarities. I don't have a CFS diagnosis yet, though. But i think my problem is not being able to get rid of toxins, i have a candida overgrowth, which causes me many symptoms.
What i do know is that if i have a kid, i will avoid c-section and vaccines.
Ive had problems with two viruses in my life one was Measels the other EBV and i now find i have a rare genetic disorder i suspect this is why im bad with viruses.
I don't buy it. Autism is not completely reversible. The infections that may cause CFS have been eradicated in people and the CFS, or whatever you want to call it, was reversed.
Yes the viruses are gone quickly but the reaction lingers on
Do you mean that you do not "buy" what Andrew Wakefield said, or that you do not "buy" that autism and/or ME are reversible?
I can only speak for autism. Many children have recovered from autism. When you see them, you would never know that they ever had the disorder.
I think you were referring to Wakefield's statement though.
My friend's husband, who initially was in bed for 3 weeks as a result of ME, is now hiking high altitudes. Hikes that are up to 13 miles. I think that he was in his mid to late 30s when the ME symtoms started (and the 3 weeks of being bedbound). He is now in his early 50s, so he has been working on his health for a long time. My college friend, whom he married and has 5 kids with, has been a huge advocate and partner in his illness, so he has had a lot of support. He went to Dr. Joe Mercola DO for help with his illness.
I think if you are born with autism then you are likely to react when a virus comes along like measels.When i say born with autism it maybe a genetic type that doesnt handle viruses well.Im not sure if autism and me/cfs are reversible but i hope they are.I was just looking into methylation its not something ive seen before but maybe this has value
Ok guys i will throw a spanner into tour conversation my son was diagnosed with autism but as he has matured and developed he has been able to list his symptoms that he has had all his life....now he has a misdiagnosis of autism and it has been replaced with me/cfs ..he is chronic me.....so when my son got sick was at 4 yrs of age, he had immunisations, fevers, a few weeks later a viral illness went to hospital he started complaining of head pain from there on...so me/ cfs and autism are both triggered by illnes or immunisations, they both result in a person being fine before and then not fine...kids are not born with autism only 1 in 10,000 are born with autism, so this is same number from 70 yrs ago....the kids being born fine and then getting ill are now 1 in 50 these are neuroimmune disease same as me/cfs...the do have sore throats or same issues but they have them so many years it becomes normal or eventually goes away, and is replaced with other chronic conditions. adults that get me/cfs have a developed brain and a developed immune system, children are still developing both. If you are a baby and you get sick and exhausted u dont develop as other healthy children. My son is unique as in most kids are 2 or 3 when they get ill, he was 4 so he had a little more brain development on board. So it may of taking 10 yrs but when he described how he had felt all his life, lots of things he listed he assumed that all people experienced. He has no before to refer to. The poor little kiddies that smack their heads against walls are in pain. my son is in pain, and me/ cfs is pain. As adults you are in a better condition with stronger immune sytems but the younger kids are riddled with hideous parasites, yeast, bacteria, heavy metals, leaky guts, the list goes on. They have chronic fatigue and i am yet to meet a autistic child that looks fresh and healthy, they have bags under their eyes, look terrible, pale, and most have not had a full nights sleep since birth. sleep issues, gastro issues, head pain, body pain, joint stiffness, hormone issues, all autism kids have mitochondrial issues, they just dont know that can complain they are fatigued or tired, its not in the vocab, some dont have the vocab others why would they know they are tired, tired needs a comparison of what feeling refreshed feels like, they have never felt this as they are geting their neuroimmune disease since infancy. Research says that me/ cfs is a neuroimmune disease, and john hopkins neuroimmunology also published a research paper autism is neuroimmune. they both have the same findings if you compare pubmed published papers on each subject, neurons, nk cells th1 and th2, snps, methylation and detox issues, interluekins, the list goes on, i plan in my spare time doing a chart listing both diseases, as it will be an eye opener...my son has ringing in ears, spots in vision his face is so locked in pain it hurts to,talk and smile, i wonder if this is why so many kids have a lack of fascial expression, he is so exhausted he is housebound, but has dragged himself to do things in the past, he kept going and going and made himself worse, he and i didnt know his body was getting nearer to crashing. more facts...on me/ cfs 5 yrs to 11 yrs is a slow onset of disease...11 yrs onwards acute...immune systems are still developing from 0 to 10 yrs.....so we are aware we have me/cfs starting around 5 yrs?
So where folks are the 0 to 5 yr olds ? clearly this age group is our most vulnerable immune system wise so they cant be immune to neuroimmune disease can they ? The 0 to 4 yr olds ..just get a different label, they are not in a place where they can say, i have a sore throat and fever today, and 2 weeks later say i still have hit and now i have a headache too, i didnt sleep last night i am unrested and feeling really irritable. Get my point ? Autism the one that is increasing in numbers is me/ cfs...its not a opinion its a fact, andrew wakefield knows, john hopkins knows, dr m goldberg wrote a book on it the myth of autism and i read a nz book me/ cfs specialist dr who also said she says she sees kids diagnosed with autism who actuallly have me/cfs...but if our governments or health systems publicly acknowledge our kids are getting me/ cfs then are we going to be lining up for vaccines...the vaccine arguement does vaccine cause autism, well if autism is neuroimmune disease and neuroimmune is imune compromised then this is a major for deciding who is at risk of being triggered into neuroimmune disease after many vaccines in infancy. It changes the equation about vaccine. It is impossible for 0 to 5 yr old to not get me/ cfs....but it is obvious ghat this age group will present differently to abive 5 yrs of age....so it is also obvious it will be described diferently and labelled differently. I think i have a clear angle onnthis arguement as i have a child who has neurologically survived autism and has had to wait to,grow up to describe and learn that what he feels is not how everyone else feels and when we got his list of symptoms he has seen every specialist in this country all confirming he has a hideous case of me/ cfs escalated out of control 12 yrs with no intervention. thanks sarah
on eye pad..so i spell errors..sorry
We have to find a reason to explain the growth in numbers of people with ME.
We ought to be healthy. Why is it just the generation born since the fifties that gets ME. Why are these numbers going up? In my family there are three people with ME, all in my generation -but not the earlier generations - they were healthy. So it is something that started recently.
Mechanisms of aluminum adjuvant toxicity and autoimmunity in pediatric populations.
Tomljenovic L, Shaw CA.
Neural Dynamics Research Group, Department of Ophthalmology and Visual Sciences, University of British Columbia, Vancouver, BC, Canada. firstname.lastname@example.org
Immune challenges during early development, including those vaccine-induced, can lead to permanent detrimental alterations of the brain and immune function. Experimental evidence also shows that simultaneous administration of as little as two to three immune adjuvants can overcome genetic resistance to autoimmunity. In some developed countries, by the time children are 4 to 6 years old, they will have received a total of 126 antigenic compounds along with high amounts of aluminum (Al) adjuvants through routine vaccinations. According to the US Food and Drug Administration, safety assessments for vaccines have often not included appropriate toxicity studies because vaccines have not been viewed as inherently toxic. Taken together, these observations raise plausible concerns about the overall safety of current childhood vaccination programs. When assessing adjuvant toxicity in children, several key points ought to be considered: (i) infants and children should not be viewed as "small adults" with regard to toxological risk as their unique physiology makes them much more vulnerable to toxic insults; (ii) in adult humans Al vaccine adjuvants have been linked to a variety of serious autoimmune and inflammatory conditions (i.e., "ASIA"), yet children are regularly exposed to much higher amounts of Al from vaccines than adults; (iii) it is often assumed that peripheral immune responses do not affect brain function. However, it is now clearly established that there is a bidirectional neuro-immune cross-talk that plays crucial roles in immunoregulation as well as brain function. In turn, perturbations of the neuro-immune axis have been demonstrated in many autoimmune diseases encompassed in "ASIA" and are thought to be driven by a hyperactive immune response; and (iv) the same components of the neuro-immune axis that play key roles in brain development and immune function are heavily targeted by Al adjuvants. In summary, research evidence shows that increasing concerns about current vaccination practices may indeed be warranted. Because children may be most at risk of vaccine-induced complications, a rigorous evaluation of the vaccine-related adverse health impacts in the pediatric population is urgently needed.
Do aluminum vaccine adjuvants contribute to the rising prevalence of autism?
Tomljenovic L, Shaw CA.
Neural Dynamics Research Group, Department of Ophthalmology and Visual Sciences, University of British Columbia, 828 W. 10th Ave, Vancouver, BC, Canada V5Z 1L8. email@example.com
Autism spectrum disorders (ASD) are serious multisystem developmental disorders and an urgent global public health concern. Dysfunctional immunity and impaired brain function are core deficits in ASD. Aluminum (Al), the most commonly used vaccine adjuvant, is a demonstrated neurotoxin and a strong immune stimulator. Hence, adjuvant Al has the potential to induce neuroimmune disorders. When assessing adjuvant toxicity in children, two key points ought to be considered: (i) children should not be viewed as "small adults" as their unique physiology makes them much more vulnerable to toxic insults; and (ii) if exposure to Al from only few vaccines can lead to cognitive impairment and autoimmunity in adults, is it unreasonable to question whether the current pediatric schedules, often containing 18 Al adjuvanted vaccines, are safe for children? By applying Hill's criteria for establishing causality between exposure and outcome we investigated whether exposure to Al from vaccines could be contributing to the rise in ASD prevalence in the Western world. Our results show that: (i) children from countries with the highest ASD prevalence appear to have the highest exposure to Al from vaccines; (ii) the increase in exposure to Al adjuvants significantly correlates with the increase in ASD prevalence in the United States observed over the last two decades (Pearson r=0.92, p<0.0001); and (iii) a significant correlation exists between the amounts of Al administered to preschool children and the current prevalence of ASD in seven Western countries, particularly at 3-4 months of age (Pearson r=0.89-0.94, p=0.0018-0.0248). The application of the Hill's criteria to these data indicates that the correlation between Al in vaccines and ASD may be causal. Because children represent a fraction of the population most at risk for complications following exposure to Al, a more rigorous evaluation of Al adjuvant safety seems warranted.
The worldwide prevalence of autoimmune and autoinflammatory diseases is determined by the interplay of genetic and environmental factors.7 The latter factors include infections, toxins, drugs, and others agents that can be linked by the occurrence of immune-mediated diseases as well as the nature of the clinical manifestations and their severity.8,9 The mechanisms by which these environmental factors trigger autoimmunity are diverse but, as a group, they may incorporate an adjuvant effect. An adjuvant is a substance that enhances the activation of the immune system, both the innate and the adoptive ones.10-12
For years, adjuvants have been used by physicians and scientists to boost a desirable immune response, either in experimental models or during medical interventions, most classically, immunization. The adjuvant effects encompass physical protection of the antigen from degradation, stimulation of innate immunity by toll-like receptors (TLRs) and non-TLRs sensors, antigen translocation to regional lymph nodes, and activation of the complement system.10 Consequently, adjuvants enable a longer exposure of the immune system to the antigen and prime the system for the production and activation of B and T cells, resulting in a more robust response.
Despite their ability to boost immune responses, in the past, adjuvants were generally considered to be inert materials that posed little or no independent threat to the host. Alas, animal studies as well as reports of human diseases have clearly demonstrated the ability of adjuvants to inflict diseases by themselves.10 One of the most studied adjuvants in this context is pristane. This adjuvant was found to be capable of inducing an autoimmune disease like systemic lupus erythematosus (SLE) in a murine model.13 Replicating features of human disease, pristane-induced lupus is characterized by the production of autoantibodies as well as organ damage (e.g., renal disease) that depends on the interferon (IFN)-I receptor signaling pathway. The adjuvant, squalene, can also induce arthritis in rats and the production of SLE- associated autoantibodies in mice.13,14
Aluminum is a widely used adjuvant that may produce immune activation and induce autoimmunity.10 This metal is encountered extensively in daily life through the soil, water, food, and pharmaceutical agents. Aluminum may be present in high amounts in dialysate, intravenous solutions, antacids, buffered aspirins, antidiarrheal products, bone cement, and alum-containing vaccines. The widespread use of aluminum was enhanced by the belief that it is nontoxic and rapidly excreted in the urine. Regrettably, it turns out that aluminum has several pathologic effects such as postdialysis encephalopathy, degenerative brain disorders, osteomalacia, cholestasis, ototoxicity, normo- or microcytic anemia, hemolytic anemia, disturbed erythropoiesis process, and inhibition of macrophage and leukocyte defensive mechanisms.15 The widely used adjuvant alum is hydrated potassium aluminum sulfate.
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