1. Patients launch $1.27 million crowdfunding campaign for ME/CFS gut microbiome study.
    Check out the website, Facebook and Twitter. Join in donate and spread the word!
A Little Poisoning Along the Road to ME/CFS
Looking at my symptoms, many of which are far less these days and some are gone, it would be easy to figure that I'd just been dealing with some heavy-duty menopausal issues.
Discuss the article on the Forums.

anabolism versus catabolism

Discussion in 'General Treatment' started by heapsreal, Jan 26, 2012.

  1. heapsreal

    heapsreal iherb 10% discount code OPA989,

    Messages:
    7,320
    Likes:
    4,677
    australia (brisbane)
    Has anyone really persued improving anabolic process as this can help improve recovery from inflammation, oxidative stress, improve immune function etc. I think many of us do a few of these things indirectly as alot of treatments cross over. The opposite of anabolism is catabolism which is a necessary process to create energy by breaking down more complex substances for energy but with ongoing stress of things in me/cfs like infections, inflammation etc this process is tipped to far in favour of catabolism. Most of us have hormone profiles that are out of whack which is a good indicator that the anabolic/catabolic process isnt in our favour.

    So anabolism is about growth and recovery, so adequate rest and protein /nutrition are important for this. Most sports are big into this has it helps improve their performance. Many use things like amino acids(BCAAs) high doses of glutamine, creatine and others.

    So can others share their personal experience and post some good links that we may find helpful. This isnt a topic i have seen mentioned much on this site but i think an important one and closely related to some of the threads on inflammtion etc that have been posted lately.

    cheers!!!
     
  2. GhostGum

    GhostGum Senior Member

    Messages:
    172
    Likes:
    125
    Vic, AU
    Hi Heapsreal.

    This has kind of been my approach over the years, trying to rebuild myself from the inside out basically, improve my immune function, brain health, metabolism, mitochondria, rebuild lean muscle and improve circulation; its basically an approach a natural body builder or athlete might take.

    You can see my routine here, recently updated,

    http://forum.notcrazy.net/index.php?topic=8024.0

    Has taken me many years but I am coming to the end of the road, I still get some PEM/neuroinflammation from activity but notice improvement on an almost daily basis now. It certainly takes time, I was hopeless at the beginning dieting, worrying about whether supplements are working or not/what they are doing to me, struggling to get a small protein shake down or half a can of tuna but you get use to it after a while; now I am waking throwing down 6 grams of spirulina, 1-2grams of ALCAR, 5 grams of creatine, a large protein shake and it can fuel me for the first half of the day.

    I think the Terry Wahls youtube mitochondria vid that has been getting around is another aspect to this as well, a paleo/keto style protein diet; wish I could be this strict with the diet but when I am tired I am very weak to carbs and sugar, it does not help in the short term but I have been able to get away with it I guess.
     
    GcMAF Australia likes this.
  3. heapsreal

    heapsreal iherb 10% discount code OPA989,

    Messages:
    7,320
    Likes:
    4,677
    australia (brisbane)
    cool, the natural body builder or athlete was what i was thinking as well, although different, i think many similarities with overtraining syndrome that athletes suffer, so probably an overlap of treatments too. extra protein and branch chained amino acids as well as glutamine are shown to improve ahtletes recovery ability, you would think this could help us with PEM. Good to see your supps helping you with PEM. Im thinking of adding extra glutamine and bcaa's to a protein drink twice a day and see how it go's, first i have to look at my other supps and drop those i dont think are helping, so i can budget for new supps.

    cheers!!!
     
  4. GhostGum

    GhostGum Senior Member

    Messages:
    172
    Likes:
    125
    Vic, AU
    What protein do you use? Optimum Nutrition do some very good and affordable products and their whey especially already has extensive amino acid profiles along with I think 5 grams of glutamine per serving; the large 10 pound bag is pretty cost effective and will last a long time, in Australia especially a lot of protein products can be overly expensive. You should have a look at bulkpowders.com.au as well, a good high grade no name supplier, you can get very good creatine products there as well along with bulk glutamine. Is maybe worth looking into casein, whey and egg protein mixes as well which are slower release, whey by itself is more short lived and maybe not the best if you are not active although the amino profiles in it are always going to be useful; not sure slower release products have the same profiles.

    One thing to note about creatine is you need to make sure you take a good amount of fluids because it draws water from other parts of the body and cause dehydration; anyone with kidney problems should stay away from it. It should be of more interest to the ME community too I think since it has also been shown to protect nerve cells, improve cognition and commonly used by MS patients; combine with DHA, Uridine, ALCAR and you have a potentially game changing nootropic stack.

    Anyway figured in light of no real treatment the least I could do was attempt to try and find things that could improve or even transform the functioning of my body, think I have refined it down fairly well over the years to things of good benefit long term although its far from exact science; have little doubt it has been a big part of what has turned me around though.
     
  5. heapsreal

    heapsreal iherb 10% discount code OPA989,

    Messages:
    7,320
    Likes:
    4,677
    australia (brisbane)
    cool, saved that site. thanks.

    cheers!!!
     
  6. GcMAF Australia

    GcMAF Australia Senior Member

    Messages:
    661
    Likes:
    553
    Thanks Ghostgum
    hope that you really kick on
    GcMAF
     
  7. peggy-sue

    peggy-sue

    Messages:
    2,494
    Likes:
    2,874
    Scotland
    I don't know if my comments are relevant or not, but here goes!
    I personally operate daily on a catabolic system. I always have, I don't cope on an anabolic one.
    I eat one large meal at night, I have two mugs of coffee during the day. I digest while I'm asleep and (obviously) operate the next day, using my body's resources rather than what I've just eaten.
    I did try, for 5 months, eating 3 meals a day - I just got hungrier and hungrier at each meal, I was dopey all afternoon and ended up not being able to do anything and putting a load of weight on.

    When I decided to try using an acelty-l-carnitine complex to help with the ME, I did a bit of research on exercise physiology, to find the best way of taking it - which I had discovered was on an empty stomach, AFTER having been active.
    This is my reasoning:-
    There was a study done on some atheletes. They were doing a long run.
    They were weighed before and after the long run, water loss was taken into consideration, and the finding was surprising.
    They had not lost more than an ounce or so of body weight - a lot less than expected for the amoung of energy they should have expended.
    But, what was found, however, was that the atheletes continued to loose weight for several hours afterwards.

    So the body uses "whatever is available" during activity - and goes into anabolic mode AFTERWARDS.

    The best way to build muscle is to exercise, THEN eat protein - not to eat the protein first.

    So I use my carnitine complex to help avoid PEM after I've overdone stuff.
    It works, if I'm careful enough.
    (I can't afford the stuff for every day use. There are cheaper things available, but the expensive complex one is the only one which works for me.)
     
  8. xks201

    xks201 Senior Member

    Messages:
    615
    Likes:
    184
    The BCAAs have been found to be low in chronic fatigue patients in one study. You can have all the anabolism in the world but if you have SIBO/gut infection/dysbiosis it won't help anything. I'm on all the prescription anabolic hormones and yeah they give me energy and make me functional but they do absolutely nothing for my immune system or dysbiosis.

    If you don't have chronic indigestion problems then pursuing hormone treatment will probably cure you of whatever you are suffering from. But if there are gut problems...you need something like xifaxan a non absorbing antibiotic to kill the bacteria...several rounds...then maybe LDN for maintenance.

    I think anyone with FM or CFS should get all their hormones tested, especially free t3, free t4, SHBG, reverse t3, sex hormones, and have an ACTH stim test to see if your body can even make enough cortisol.
     
  9. peggy-sue

    peggy-sue

    Messages:
    2,494
    Likes:
    2,874
    Scotland
    "I think anyone with FM or CFS should get all their hormones tested, especially free t3, free t4, SHBG, reverse t3, sex hormones, and have an ACTH stim test to see if your body can even make enough cortisol."

    Wonderful idea :) - not available in the uk though.
     
  10. xks201

    xks201 Senior Member

    Messages:
    615
    Likes:
    184
    It's a pain trying to get even US doctors to test for this stuff. Most of my labs I do privately. Sorry to hear that.
     
  11. peggy-sue

    peggy-sue

    Messages:
    2,494
    Likes:
    2,874
    Scotland
    My carnitine compound does do the job of allowing me to live occassionally:)
    (and one of those occassions was yesterday - planned for weeks, rested up beforehand, and had a lovely day out with my partner! We went to 4 operas (short ones) - at Edinburgh Festival. I shall relive my memories of it for months!)
     

See more popular forum discussions.

Share This Page