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Anabol Dibencoplex vs Source Natural Adb12

Discussion in 'Detox: Methylation; B12; Glutathione; Chelation' started by dbkita, Jan 28, 2013.

  1. dbkita

    dbkita Senior Member

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    You and I are in the same boat for BHMT homozygous mutations so hopefully you are hitting that path with combination of TMG, PS or PC, right?
  2. xjhuez

    xjhuez Senior Member

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    No - I haven't begun doing anything about my BHMT mutations yet.

    I was considering the Niacinamide because I have issues with low serotonin that are negatively affecting my relationships with family/friends and it was suggested I try it. Honestly, I don't know what direction to take at this point. I do fine with mb12, but everything else methylation-related that I've tried (mfolate, LCF, b complex) make me feel worse..
  3. Xara

    Xara Senior Member

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    Hi dbkita!
    I missed you! :) I am doing pretty well, no thanks to the flu I had last week.
    But this week... Apart from sneezing every now and then, I have finally started my way to the top of Mount Healthy!
    There's a daily, 15 minutes senior excercise tv program here, and yesterday and today... Guess what? Yes! My first time in 9 months. I was very careful of course, did not want to overdo it, so did not give the full 100%, but the way my body reacted was quite encouraging, I mean I wasn't panting like a dog - my tongue was still in my mouth. :) The staircase is getting easier too. Same for getting dressed and taking a shower. I am no where near where I want to be, but there is improvement. Yes, yes, yes!
    Great, isn't it? Thanks for asking.

    Methylfolate is still 800 mcg daily, but that will end this Friday. Because I am planning on another big jump then, and I am very excited about it. The last couple of weeks I have been busy upping all sorts of cofactors, vitamins, minerals, amino acids, herbs, etc., and I hope I am better equipped now for upping methylfolate, mB12 and aB12 - especially methylfolate.
    Sleep is still great. Heart's more at ease. I have still got some very light electric shocks in my muscles every now and then, it does not upset me though and there have been days I had just one or two, but it seems the electrolytes are not quite balanced yet so I am still working on that.

    P5P: 1 x 33.8 mg. R5P: 1 x 36.5 mg, B2: 1 x 50 mg. Choline: Solgar, so yes, :) : choline bitartrate - what's wrong with that?

    And how are you, dear dbkita? Diabetes insipidus? How are you feeling ATM?
    BTW, you are still planning to give us a full report on your how, what, when, where and why, aren't you?
  4. dbkita

    dbkita Senior Member

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    Glad to hear you are doing better Xara :)

    Probably not a big deal with the amount you are taking but tartaric acid is not so good stuff. I have commented elsewhere how it messes up the malate shuttle in the mitochondria since it is a negative mimetic of malic acid. I know several people who have had problem with tartrate whether in carnitine or choline. On the other hand doesn't seem to bother my wife at all. *shrug*

    Are you taking the b2 and the r5p on top of each other or at separate slots? just curious. I am finding a big effect with taking 2x50 mg b2 vs 1x100 b2 but that probaly does not apply to r5p sodium. The effect is so pronounced I may have to do 50 + 25 mg or something. Will have to see.

    Yeah the diabetes insipidus is getting to be a real pain. My doctors are not clear why it has progressed the way it has. We may never know. Waiting for a water deprivation test. Oh joy!

    Honestly I have been too busy to make a full report. I have certainly been doing well.

    But it is becoming clear that my biggest problem is still my catabolism (weight, muscle, or otherwise). That may be due to my high glucocorticoids but then again it started years before I ever touched those meds. Gut dybiosis is also a probable factor since my SIBO came back positive.

    I have got onto a better daily schedule for my T3 which seems to power me better for the day. Let me go on the record here. Probably 50% of my improvements since Dec 2012 have been due to the T3. I keep careful track of everything now and though my total dose is less than it used to be, taking Cytomel without food was a BIG improvement so absorption was a factor. Splitting the doses up was also a big factor.

    The 500 mg LCF that Freddd recommended has certainly been positive. I am still unable to raise methylfolate without egregious potassium consequences.The R-ALA that Adreno suggested was very helpful and moving to the sodium ascorbate from ascorbic acid helped my gut greatly.

    If anything of recent with raising my p5p a bit, splitting b2 into two doses and playing with my calcium pyruvate levels, I have maybe a bit too much energy. So I may have to tinker with that. Sleep is ok, but I never get more than 5.5-6 hours before the body is ready to go and hit the day.

    I still have to factor in my genetic results. My BHMT gene is nuked. My MTRR gene has five heterozygous SNPs so now I know why I need mb12 and not hb12. My SHMT1 gene probably means I need folinic acid but I won't move on that till I get an HDRI methylation panel done. I am taking things cautiously and waiting till I get more data. Don't want to rock the boat :)
  5. Xara

    Xara Senior Member

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    Wives are usually right. :) On the other hand, because of your information, I am a bit concerned now - thanks! :)
    What kind of problems did these people have? Or did you mention that in the other post?
    Is there a choline brand you could recommend?
    I am taking the R5P at breakfast and the B2 at dinner. Once the B2 jar is empty, I'll take R5P twice a day.
    I really hope you'll find some answers, and with the answers a clear road to further improvement. Not knowing is stressing.
    And hopefully the water deprivation test will turn out to be not as bad as expected, I hope you'll be sent away after just two or three hours, because of good results. :)
    Hurray for your improvements! Great to read that tiny differences made your life better, dbkita. I have been splitting up doses too, not all of them though, because I simply hate the splitting job, I mean, tablets are easy, but capsules... I have not find the motivation yet to do any capsules other than the niacinamide and dibencoplex capsules.
    How much R-ala are you taking? I am taking 500 mg a day (divided in 3 doses). LCF: 1500 mg (divided in 2 doses).
    At/before breakfast I take most of my pills, lunch quite a lot too, but before/at dinner or in the evening just a few. BTW taking my vitamin D in the morning instead of taking it at dinner time improved my sleep significantly. I am getting 8 hours of sleep now, without waking up once, but hey, who'd say no to being fresh and ready after 6 hours? What's your secret? (Your genes, maybe? Keep them! :) )
    Well, at least your genes for wisdom and intelligence are allright. :)
    Keep us informed, will you, dbkita? Good luck!
  6. dbkita

    dbkita Senior Member

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    Problems involved glycolysis and management of the electron transport chain feeding the mitochondria.

    I would suggest trying an experiment where you pull that dinner B2 forward a little bit. What time is breakfast? If early, maybe shoot for 3-4 pm? Might help the sleep cycle a bit. Up to you.

    Yeah the DI is not a wanted "feature". I am being cautious though before I jump on another medication. I am not convinced my glucocorticoids are not part of the problem.

    I only take 300 mg R-ALA in the morning. Seems fine for me. R-ALA is MUCH more potent than regular racemic mixture ALA so hard to compare based on the 600 mg of ALA I used to take which made feel icky and tired. I have to thank Adreno for turning me onto that one.

    I take one Doctor's Best LCF (866 LCF rendering 500 mg of l-carnitine). I may go to 2x at some point. My doctors strongly advise not going above that due to complications with competitive binding at the T3 receptor sites (for me at least given my history of rt3 issues). I know for a fact that dose of L-carnitine (especially ALCAR) around 3000 mg are equivalent to STRONG anti-thyoid drugs. There is not only research to that effect, but it is well established empirically over on the stopthyroidmadness.com forums which are like the thyroid equivalent of these forums for methylation.

    Absolutely take vitamin D in the morning. Think it is the "sunshine" vitamin. Morning always with food. Ok?

    Nah my secret is a bad case of pulsatile tinnitus in my left ear due to some TMJ issues. That is why I only get six hours instead of eight :) I would love to see how refreshed I would be on eight. Seriously though there have been a long chain of improvements. But like I said the T3 is like 50% of the gains. The ready to hit the day feeling is I believe largely due to my T3 levels not being a train wreck at night. Your body does more at night than you might think.

    Take care Xara. Glad to hear you are doing much better. Keep it up!
    Xara likes this.
  7. Lotus97

    Lotus97 Senior Member

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    In another thread you mentioned something about high fat meals blocking vitamin D absorption. I'm curious what you consider high fat. I find that I can control my hypoglycemic symptoms by eating a balanced amount of protein, carbs, and fat (calories not grams:eek:)
  8. dbkita

    dbkita Senior Member

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    No. I said you need to take vitamin D with fat to prevent the negative influence on the immune system in the GI tract. If you take vitamin D "naked" with water your gut will regret it and it can increase NE signaling. Fat is a good thing. So no quite the opposite fat aids in absorption of A, D, K, etc and more importantly prevents A and especially D from irritating the immune system in the gut which is where most of the immune system is found anyways.
    Lotus97 likes this.
  9. xjhuez

    xjhuez Senior Member

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    I tried a half dose of TMG yesterday and I felt pretty good. I'm going to stay on it for a few days and see how it goes. Assuming I do well is it something to stick with? Or would stepping up to PS/PC make more sense? I'd read somewhere that TMG was a good place to start, as it's inexpensive and benign, but that PS or PC is potentially better in that they might also reduce cognitive decline/dysfunction. Or maybe TMG fills that role as well.
  10. dbkita

    dbkita Senior Member

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    I would focus on tmg first. Add in some ps / pc later and see in conjunction. Beware ps lowers cortisol so never take in morning.
  11. Lotus97

    Lotus97 Senior Member

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    From what I've read here I think I'll just stay with SN.
    I understand why you would stay with Source Naturals since you say you've used it before and I assume it works for you, but I went through this entire thread and no one said Source Naturals worked better than Anabol so I don't know what you're referring to when you say what you've "read here". dbkita said he was thinking about staying with Source Naturals because it worked for him, but he wasn't comparing it to Anabol.
  12. adreno

    adreno 3% neanderthal

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    Tundras of Europa
    I'm just not convinced that Anabol's better, that's all, and SN is more convinient.
  13. Aineko

    Aineko

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    this is a very late reply, but I have to say - wow, Xara, this sound exactly like my symptoms (apart from the crossed ones). I know very well that situation when I just use the wrong word repeatedly, or have to search for words. Seriously, everything, down to the slow heartbeat at rest (52) and low blood pressure. I even have (had?) very slow basal metabolism (I had it checked it with calorimetry), 30% less than what expected for someone my age/height/weight.

    But in my case, all these symptoms went away with few mg of methylB12 daily (don't know about the heartbeat and basal metabolism). The other symptoms I had were taken care of by 600mg CoQ10 per day. Some aspects of fatigue were cured with CoQ10 (morning fatigue), some with B12. The interesting thing is that I also stopped complaining about being cold all the time.

    I am now also taking SN abdB12 but see no effects. I am looking forward to trying Anabol brand. I am really jealous of people saying they got muscle growth with adbB12 - I'd like some too :).

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