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An Update on ME/CFS Research with Ronald W. Davis, PhD

Discussion in 'Latest ME/CFS Research' started by Ben Howell, Feb 21, 2017.

  1. caledonia

    caledonia

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    Mercury and arsenic inhibit the citric acid cycle.
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK22340/

    In general, mercury and other toxic metals disrupt pathways and enzymes all over the body, such as seen in the large metabolomics cycle diagram in the video.

    Some of these metals are, unfortunately, ubiquitous in our environment and bioaccumulate in the body, starting in utero, from the mother. The half life of their natural detoxification can be decades, therefore, you need to chelate them out to get a timely resolution.

    If this ends up being "the" root cause, and Ron can come up with a better way to chelate or a workaround for these metals, that would be huge, not only for ME/CFS, but also 30 other major diseases.
     
    Aroa, picante and Learner1 like this.
  2. Jon_Tradicionali

    Jon_Tradicionali Alone & Wandering

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    Zogor-Ndreaj, Shkodër, Albania
    Please make Ron aware of this and any other hypothesis you may have, supported by a scientific study.
    I'd encourage everyone else to do the same.
     
    justy and Theodore like this.
  3. Kenny Banya

    Kenny Banya Senior Member

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    How much money does the US Government contribute to the research?
    And is it likely to drop under the new sociopathic administration?
     
  4. Lynne B

    Lynne B Senior Member

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    I've just donated again. Can't wait for the next instalment from this team dedicated to our welfare.
     
    Mary, Ben Howell, justy and 8 others like this.
  5. DeceptivelySlow

    DeceptivelySlow

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    Thanks again for sharing Ben:thumbsup: I think the highlight of the new video is Prof Davis saying, "I understand this disease pretty well now" Just wow!!!
     
    MEMum, Mary, Jan and 12 others like this.
  6. Soundthealarm21

    Soundthealarm21 Senior Member

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    This is incredible news!
     
    MEMum, Mary, Ben Howell and 4 others like this.
  7. Learner1

    Learner1 Professional Patient

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    @caledonia said:

    Mercury and arsenic inhibit the citric acid cycle.
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK22340/

    In general, mercury and other toxic metals disrupt pathways and enzymes all over the body, such as seen in the large metabolomics cycle diagram in the video.

    At the United Mitochondrial Disease Conference last June, Robert Naviaux"s talk on Cell Danger Response was followed by Kendall Wallace who showed the slide below of arsenic in mitochondria - it's the black ball in the image on the right and the smaller black particles in the image on the left.

    Mitochondria do store a lot of toxins. They're difficult to get out. My doctor has had me on an alpha lipoic acid complex called PolyMVA to remove toxic stuff from mine, with a lot of support to get it all the way out of me. It has pulled out arsenic and lead - I had the symptoms of the toxins and it was measurable on labs. Arsenic inhibits ATP production and I felt it dramatically.

    Dr. Naviaux gave an impassioned speech to the doctors in the UMDF audience about being more outspoken about toxins and to protect delicate mitochondrial disease patients from toxins from the environment as well as the toxic effects that most pharmaceuticals have on mitochondria, including most antibiotics and psychiatric medications.

    I also saw Joe Pizzorno speak a couple of weeks ago - he was a co-founder of Bastyr U and a leader in alternative medicine. He has a new book on toxicity coming out and shared reams of data on toxicity we all have and how specific toxins cause various diseases.

    Attention to this should be a component of a cure... it's an inconvenient truth, as it adds to the complexity.

    I was convinced Dr. Naviaux knows this...and assume he and Dr Davis talk about this?? I'm not sure how detoxing fits with the new developments, though...
     

    Attached Files:

    MEMum, Mary, bertiedog and 6 others like this.
  8. M Paine

    M Paine Senior Member

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    How would it be that mercury and arsenic which are sequestered inside cells, would be leeching out in large enough quantities into serum to cause healthy cells to become hypometabolic in culture? It seems rather contradictory to talk about how difficult it is to remove these heavy metals and toxins, but at the same time expect ordinary serum to be leeching out enough contaminants in sufficiently cause disease in healthy cell lines in a very short amount of time.

    I think it's interesting that they will screen Valtrex, Rituximab, and others. Hopefully they include, Methylcobalamin (B12), Magnesium, Zinc and all the other commonly used adjuncts.

    It must be an exciting time in the laboratory.
     
    MEMum, GodGenghis, Mary and 6 others like this.
  9. hixxy

    hixxy Senior Member

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    If the claims haven't be proven in patients with ME then they aren't really relevant.
     
    Kati likes this.
  10. M Paine

    M Paine Senior Member

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    Really interested to know how feasible Pyruvate supplimentation is. I'm guessing there's some reason why Calcium Pyruvate tablets wouldn't work.

    I'm a little confused by what Ron was saying, if Pyuvate Dehydrogenase is the blockade, then how does adding pyruvate to culture bypass the need for PDH? When he says Pruvate, does he mean after it has been removed of the CO2? IE Acetyl-CoA?
     
    veganmua and GodGenghis like this.
  11. alex3619

    alex3619 Senior Member

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    Its extremely unlikely any feasible amount of ATP will help a whole organism. Pyruvate is more feasible. Other things need to be tried, which is what the team plans.

    We turn over huge amounts of ATP in the course of a day, the tiny drop from a tablet might not help much. However a single injectible dose might be considered, not because it is a lot, but because it is comparatively a lot over a very short time frame. That might give things a very brief jolt. Who knows what that might do? This might also be very dangerous though as ATP is not only energy currency, but involved in a lot of signalling.

    Why pyruvate? A block is sensitive to quantity. If there is enough quantity it might force it through the block. It might also send signals to the body to change enzymatic regulation of pyruvate metabolism. Its not just about adding pyruvate, its about secondary effects. Acetyl Co-A is something I would consider. They suspect pyruvate because it changes cell behaviour in their assay. That is they have some limited experimental evidence.
     
    MEMum, Grigor, Ben Howell and 6 others like this.
  12. aquariusgirl

    aquariusgirl Senior Member

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    I was wondering if the metabolic picture implicated oxolates..,because of the widespread mineral disruption?? They also bind metals ..so that is a twofer.
     
  13. Sean

    Sean Senior Member

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    The pyruvate block might be a protective mechanism, so trying to override it with various supplements, without first fixing the reason it is blocked, might be a bad idea.
     
    leokitten, MeSci, justy and 4 others like this.
  14. aquariusgirl

    aquariusgirl Senior Member

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    What about nasal insulin? Would that bypass the pyruvate block to fuel the brain?
     
  15. M Paine

    M Paine Senior Member

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    Very true. I also suspect that if pyruvate supplementation worked, someone would have stumbled upon it. I get the feeling people have searched far and wide for an off the shelf solution.
     
    cigana, MeSci, RL_sparky and 3 others like this.
  16. Jesse2233

    Jesse2233 Senior Member

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    My question is how does this fit into a grand theory of ME/CFS?

    If blood serum contains the dysfunction, how do autoantibodies and stealth infections relate (assuming they're valid theories).

    B-cells move through the blood...
     
    justy and TreePerson like this.
  17. halcyon

    halcyon Senior Member

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    Persistent immune response to the persistent pathogen could be causing continuous production and systemic circulation of things like TNF-alpha, IL-1, etc. that have the ability to modify PDH function (source) and thus cause hypometabolism in cells distant from the viral reservoir. These immune messengers are what would be present in the serum causing the dysfunction(s).
     
    picante, justy, ukxmrv and 2 others like this.
  18. Janet Dafoe (Rose49)

    Janet Dafoe (Rose49) Board Member

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    Ron says: Pyruvate is not very soluble so it's difficult to get enough of it into your cells. I mentioned the pyruvate because it is inhibiting the increase in impedance that we see when we stress cells in the presence of ME/CFS serum.
     
    Laelia, frozen, GodGenghis and 28 others like this.
  19. Jesse2233

    Jesse2233 Senior Member

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    Sean and alex3619 like this.
  20. Janet Dafoe (Rose49)

    Janet Dafoe (Rose49) Board Member

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    Ron has figured out that whatever is in the serum that's triggering this is a big molecule, so it could be a protein, A protein complex, or an antibody (which includes auto antibodies)
     

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