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An L-methylfolate mystery

Discussion in 'Detox: Methylation; B12; Glutathione; Chelation' started by Freddd, Feb 5, 2016.

  1. Freddd

    Freddd Senior Member

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    I've been doing some comparative trials between 2 different forms of L-methylfolate; calcium salts (Metafolin) and glucosimine salts (Quatrefolic).

    As I am taking 30mg of injected MeCbl daily, i have an easy way to see my "effective folate levels". The higher the folate the lower the serum half life of MeCbl. Through the years of bi--weekly periodic folate deficiency the visibility of the MeCbl in urine increases and decreases. After I had a liver problem start as a result of an antibiotic, the level of MeCbl in my urine went up which appeared to be due to a lower folate level. Being at 30mg of Metafolin I decided to try a slightly different form, Quatrafolic, a glucosimine salt instead of calcium, said to dissolve faster. I had rapid "neurological brightening" and improvement in mood. That lasted a week and then the MeCbl started showing up more in my urine in the last week and some symptoms increasing. Now I switched back to the equivalent dose of Metafolin and same thing happened, a sudden improvement and decrease of B12 in urine. I don't know how long it will last but it sort of looks like alternating the two forms keeps performance at the best.

    WHY? What is happening here? I saw a similar effect when comparing Jarrow MeCbl and Enzymatic therapy MeCbl and I ended up using both for years. It sort of looks like differential absorption between the two forms. I will keep trials going to see what is optimal for me and hopefully figure out what is going on. If anybody has some theories I'd like to hear them. Maybe we need to channel Rich.
     
  2. PeterPositive

    PeterPositive Senior Member

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    I'd really like to know the answer too.
    Quatrefolic seems to generate too much adrenaline-like neurotransmitters for me, eventually causing excessive anxiety.

    Maybe it has a different absorption and it's more effective... The thing is that I don't get that effect from Metafolin, not even at high doses, while I can get into a semi-panic state for just a 1mg of Quatrefolic, especially using the sublingual form.

    There's also a third form which is found in Thorne's methylfolate and which is produced by the same company that does Quatrefolic. But it's a calcium salt, like Metafolin.

    I've tried that too and found it some kind of middle way between Metafolin and Quatrefolic. Stronger than the former without the excess of the latter.
     
    aturtles likes this.
  3. AlmostEasy

    AlmostEasy

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    I am beginning to notice the same and after a new experiment then reading this it seems that that has been the pattern all along. Initially I did well with Metafolin tabs and they seemed to not be "enough" so I thought hey I guess I just need more! So I switched to Magnafolate-C 10mg's and noticed the effects I wanted. Then after some time another user and I both felt that this was just not a good product and went back to Metafolin, with positive results. The time spans were so large and so many other things were on our minds that we didn't really see the connection.

    Lately we did a bulk purchase from Alibaba of 30g L-Methylfolate Calcium (no brand claim, just that name and a guarantee it isn't racemic). Upon administering up to 60 - 70 mg / day I thought I'd found the holy grail, still thinking dosage was the issue. It may still to a certain extent. After about 3 or 4 days of the best I've ever done with methylation on its own the effects began to diminish. I then took 10 mg Solgar's Metafolin just to do a comparison test after taking all the other vitals in the DQ thinking I'd just depleted them, and the positive effects came immediately back. The combo of the Chinese L-MTHF-Ca with Metafolin is the best I've done yet.

    Another user I chat with has been doing Quatrefolic in the a.m. (saying that taking on an empty stomach is critical) and Metafolin in the p.m. sublingually and claims this is the longest any folate has lasted for him. Initially he did not know the rotating of the folate types may have been the reason but with these new insights he/we think it might be just that.

    Is there any information on absorption problems with the different types? Or any information on just methylfolate absorption in general? This makes me really wonder about methylfolate injections. L-MTHF-Ca dissolves at 11mg/ml which isn't ideal but if it bypasses whatever mechanism is interfering with absorption it might be worth it.

    http://www.drugs.com/pro/folic-acid-injection.html

    I see they have Folic Acid injections but have yet to find anything on methylfolate.
     
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  4. Freddd

    Freddd Senior Member

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    @AlmostEasy

    I've been hearing things around here and there that suggested something was going on for a lot of people. There is nothing about this researched that I know of. It took my experience for me to see it. And because of the quantity of B12 I take, I can watch my serum level (effective serum level? serum level effectiveness?) go up and down by color of urine. I have also experienced similar things with various batches of MeCbl. In pain management sometimes they do opioid rotations to improve effectiveness. I take my 3 daily doses on an empty stomach each time. Methylfolate is considered well absorbed. I've never tried sublingual.
     
    aturtles likes this.
  5. Freddd

    Freddd Senior Member

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    @PeterPositive ,

    I would think that your state is because of better CNS absorption and interacting with some brain neuron (damaged or not working well) increasing the activity with the "semi-panic" with 1mg of Quatrafolic. I'm not sure why it would have that effect but possibly because it makes for better B12 penetration and/or retention. Looks like I'm going to need to order some of each variety to see what happens.
     
    aturtles likes this.
  6. AlmostEasy

    AlmostEasy

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    Yes, it took me experiencing it as well. It drove me absolutely insane for a while because there was literally ZERO literature on it and I hadn't even found direct discussion of it on PR and there appeared to be no actual difference between the folates that could cause such a distinction. I and another user I chat with seemed to be the only ones experiencing it.

    Now I want to re-state something about what had happened with this bulk L-MTHF-Ca powder from China. I had created a 10 mg / ml tincture in WATER. Over several days the effects diminished and Metafolin today brought the moderate - severe neurological brightening back. I was perplexed but then after much discussion we realized that it may be degrading in water. I took 20 mg of the powder and things are right back where they were. It is some powerful stuff. I'm on 3 x 8 mg injections and about 60 mg L-MTHF-Ca a day. I've made up a 10 mg / ml solution in Propylene Glycol which many companies make their solutions with for those exact reasons, stability. Hopefully it will retain but the overall message is just that the powder works.

    The phenomenon did happen in the past as I had mentioned and it may well be the same as yours, I just wanted to clear that bit up. Do not mix folate in water apparently. If things change I'll correct the rationale again but at the moment it looks to be that way.

    If I find that this fades as the others have I'll try to contrast it with Quatrefolic and see what happens. At the moment things are the best they have ever been yet with these major doses of folate. In the past I'd felt that it was just that I didn't get ENOUGH folate. Now that I have a cheap, bulk, functioning supply I'll see how it works over time.

    How long did it take before you noticed either folate losing effectiveness? Did a higher dose make a difference and bring back some life or was there a plateau that only rotating would fix?
     
    matt3n and aturtles like this.

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