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An effective SIBO treatment - a biofilm disruptor is needed...?

Discussion in 'The Gut: De Meirleir & Maes; H2S; Leaky Gut' started by Bansaw, Jul 27, 2015.

  1. Bansaw

    Bansaw Senior Member

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    My doc just put me on a SIBO protocol.

    Its a month of the following:
    Biotics ADP (Emulsified Oil of Oregano)
    Biotics Bromelain CLA (biofilm disruptor)
    Sac Boulardii


    After a month, I'm to hit the probiotics hard. Perhaps VSL3, or kefir, etc.

    Any comments on that protocol?

    There are other biofilm disruptors out there. Xylitol, Coconut Oil, NAC.
    Come to think of it when I tried Xylitol as a sugar substitute three years ago, I had to stop because it was giving me so much gas. I wonder if it was disrupting some biofilms that were there?
     
    Last edited: Jul 27, 2015
  2. ahmo

    ahmo Senior Member

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    I wrote up my findings re SIBO/Candida protocols, including a variety of natural substances and biofilm disruptors. You can see it here. After it was done, I, too, hit the probiotics hard. Things have improved.:thumbsup:
     
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  3. out2lunch

    out2lunch Senior Member

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    Nope. It gave you gas because your gut can't digest it. Xylitol is a polyol, which is the "P" in FODMAP:

    Fermentable Oligo- Di- Monosaccharides And Polyols

    I've had serious SIBO issues for the past three years. And the biggest difference I've made in keeping the SIBO from coming back every 3 months after a round of Xifaxan, is the FODMAP diet. Restricting FODMAPs really helps.

    I take several different D-Lactate free probiotic strains, but the FODMAP diet is what best controlled the bloating and painful gas cramps. I would highly recommend you talk to your doc about it and give it a try.
     
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  4. AndyPandy

    AndyPandy Making the most of it

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    I follow a modified FODMAPs diet and do well on this and probiotics. I have had to stop probiotics for a test and my IBS is way worse.

    I don't tolerate xylitol or its friends.;)
     
  5. Bansaw

    Bansaw Senior Member

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    Thanks Ahmo, I had a look at your blogpost. I might add Serrapeptase to Bromelain as disruptors. THinking of getting VSL3 as a probiotic afterwards. I think I have some Candida in there, and maybe some Rickettisia (a Lyme-like bacteria).
    I think I have some ammonia going on somewhere. I have bad PEM and my doc gave me an Ammonia Scavenger that seems to have helped a little. Mind you, she said that my urine should be stronger in odor, color etc. But my urine is just as its regularly been. I don't know if thats a sign of ammonia not being expelled or not?
     
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  6. ahmo

    ahmo Senior Member

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    Even when I knew I was having ammonia symptoms, I never noticed it in my urine or body odor, as some people report. Eventually I came to be unclear as to whether I was conflating ammonia with peroxynitrite symptoms. But I felt good to go ahead with that intense clearing and know I was doing everything I could to eliminate the sources. My post following the one you read documents my amazement when I discovered that the FMN form of Vit B2 essentially eliminated my need for the supps I'd been using for ammonia. at that time, I was relying on malic acid, but no longer need it.
     
  7. ebethc

    ebethc Senior Member

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    @AndyPandy @out2lunch
    Is FODMAPs more for IBS-D than IBS-C?
     
  8. acer2000

    acer2000 Senior Member

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    Which probiotics do you find helpful?
     
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  9. AndyPandy

    AndyPandy Making the most of it

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    @ebethc I have both IBS C and D, but D is more prevalent. FODMAPS diet and probiotics seem to stabilise things and I have much less gut pain and general pain and fatigue.

    @acer2000 Inner Health Plus Dairy Free.

    Best wishes Andy.
     
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  10. out2lunch

    out2lunch Senior Member

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    I'm complicated. When I don't reduce FODMAP foods in my diet, I'm IBS-D with a capital D the size of Montana. :eek: But with FODMAP restriction, my IBS leans more towards the C variety.

    One of the problems with IBS treatment is the need to identify all of the reasons your gut is dysbiotic. For many of us, it isn't just dealing with sheer numbers of good bugs and bad bugs, their ratios, etc. It also has to do with the mechanics of how the gut is functioning. That's physiological, usually neurological, and not the professional purview of most functional medicine doctors.

    If you have neurological problems with how your gut performs, you're going to have one helluva time keeping the dysbiosis in check. Now pile on other complications like genetic tissue alterations as with Ehlers-Danlos, genetic inability to clear toxins, chronic infections from messed up immune systems, and physiological alterations to the pelvic/abdominal landscape because of surgery, and voila! Gut problems from hell! :nervous:

    That's what I'm dealing with. All of the above. And as my gut tissue ages, these problems become more and more increasingly difficult to manage.

    Based on my own health issues and what I've read online from other patients, I am more convinced with each passing year that this is where the rubber meets the road. That the vast majority of everyone's health issues begin and end in their guts.

    Until every single aspect of gut functionality is addressed and dealt with, including issues like motility and physiology, we will never heal our ME/CFS and/or whatever crap that disables us. And any ME/CFS/FMS/CIRS/MCSS doctor or medical specialist who isn't completely up to speed on the latest and greatest research regarding these gut issues, needs to catch a clue and become a gut expert if they ever have any hope of healing their patients.

    My own specialist of the past 14 years is woefully lacking in understanding this stuff. He gets the basics about the bugs but doesn't appreciate the importance of the neurological functioning and physiological complications that so many of us are saddled with. And therein lies the problem.

    I've been chasing bug issues and not paying enough attention to the other layers of complications which keep the bug issues problematic. All issues need to be adressed simultaneously. But good luck finding doctors who truly get that.

    :bang-head::bang-head::bang-head:
     
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  11. Bansaw

    Bansaw Senior Member

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    I wonder if taking Clostridium Butyricum would also be a biofilm disruptor? Apparently its antagonistic towards Candida (which I may have)
     
  12. ebethc

    ebethc Senior Member

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    is c. butyricum the same as butyrate? butyrate made me soooo sick... couldn't tolerate it at all.
     
  13. South

    South Senior Member

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    Well, indirectly: C. Butyricum is a probiotic bacteria that makes butyrate.
     
  14. acer2000

    acer2000 Senior Member

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    Dr Pimentel at Cedars Sinai says he's identified an autoantibody that causes problems in the migrating motor complex causing SIBO in people following GI infection.

    Heres an article talking about it:

    http://fixyourgut.com/a-new-test-to-determine-sibo/
     
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  15. Journeyman

    Journeyman Senior Member

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    Well done on writing such a comprehensive blog guide for this debilitating condition that I only learnt I had following a detailed interpretation of my OAT results. I really do notice you leave no stone unturned and have all bases covered on addressing these issues. I look forward to this as I commence my herbal antibiotic regime to eliminate SIBO before then following the GAPS / FODMAP diet (with some mods)
    The one thing that concerns me is that given my detox profile (23 & Me) I really need cruciferous vegetables to normalise my hormones and prevent estrogen buildup. I've not yet investigated how I'm going to achieve this whilst remaining true to the SIBO diet, and am wondering if I can supplement with a DIM supplement and thus get all the benefits of crucifers but none of the SIBO promoting effects.... Same also for all of the brilliant antioxidant / anti inflammatory effects of garlic/onions that I'm now lacking from excluding onions/garlic on the SIBO diet.... any alternative sources for this??

    Keep up the great advice...

    Journeyman
     
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  16. Journeyman

    Journeyman Senior Member

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    If you're following the FODMAPS diet I'm assuming you also suffer from SIBO? If so then you might want to try Life Space Broad Spectrum probiotic rather or in addition to Inner Health Plus. I take both here in Australia but if you have SIBO the Lactobacillus Rhamnosus GG is the most important strain which you'll notice doesn't even exist in inner health plus. You'll also notice they formulate Life Space Broad Spectrum in a low D-lactate formula which again is potentially beneficial (and probably designed) with SIBO sufferers in mind... Ethical nutrients really need to lift their game with inner health plus... I think they had a monopoly for too long before Life Space came along with their superior range....
     
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  17. Journeyman

    Journeyman Senior Member

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    Some excellent points in this post and again reminding us of the importance of seeing the bigger picture on these health issues. Heres an article I think supports the theme of your post by showing the whole picture about SIBO/IBS....
    http://www.holistichelp.net/blog/si...ide-to-small-intestinal-bacterial-overgrowth/
    Many readers will quickly see the interrelated nature of psychology/gut health and methylation upon reading this excellent article...
     
  18. ebethc

    ebethc Senior Member

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    which probiotic strains do you like for SIBO?
     
  19. ahmo

    ahmo Senior Member

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    @Journeyman My most recent Candida cleanse, a year after the one I wrote up, I used pine oil, AKA "turpentine". I found it to be easier and by far cheaper that the complex protocol I used the first time. And I've had a definite increase in stamina following it.

    http://forums.phoenixrising.me/inde...-eliminate-chronic-fatigue.44571/#post-724180

    For Daniels Candida Cleanse pdf https://healers.vitalitycapsules.com/optin10574130

    Daniels youtube

    @ebethc I don't know. I think w/ SIBO some suggest not using probies until the SIBO is cleared, since you don't want to add to the load. But that might be old info, possibly others suggest adding probiotics to crowd out the SIBO. sorry I'm not more clear. But you can look around for how others handle it. I choose mine according to histamine intolerance, using this as a guide:
    http://thelowhistaminechef.com/these-probiotic-strains-lower-histamine-rather-than-raising-it/
     
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  20. jjxx

    jjxx Senior Member

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    The turpentine link is not available any more. Could you explain your protocol?
     

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