1. Patients launch $1.27 million crowdfunding campaign for ME/CFS gut microbiome study.
    Check out the website, Facebook and Twitter. Join in donate and spread the word!
Patient Experience: "What Bronllys taught me about pacing."
In 2012, Maya, who had tried to cope with ME/CFS on her own for many years, attended a pain management centre in Wales, U.K., and is now able to achieve more through pacing and acceptance, than she had been able to before the course...
Discuss the article on the Forums.

Amygdala retraining fact from fiction

Discussion in 'General ME/CFS News' started by Gerwyn, Apr 6, 2010.

  1. Gerwyn

    Gerwyn Guest

    The Following is based on Gupta's own words in blue and mine in red.


    Latest Update to Amygdala Hypothesis
    by Ashok Gupta Fri Mar 27, 2009 11:17 am
    Gupta, A (2009) - Updates to The Amygdala Conditioning Hypothesis for Chronic Fatigue Syndrome (ME/CFS) - A Short Report (DRAFT)

    Summary of 2002 Paper

    In my 2002 paper (1), it was HYPOTHESISED that ME/CFS is a neurobiological condition caused by a conditioned trauma in the amygdala following an acute viral, bacterial or physical insult, combined with psycho-social distress. Once the classical and operant conditioning has occurred, the amygdala becomes hyper-sensitive to signals .


    Note CAUSED by in part psycho social distress

    Classical and operant conditioning has never been observed in humans.Neither has conditioned trauma of the amygdala—what ever on earth that means..Conditioning is merely a theory outlined by behaviourists who claim that ALL behaviour is a a conditioned reponse to environmental stimuli



    It could be hypothesised that certain genes may increase the intensity and length of both the initial illness and subsequent post-infective fatigue, thereby promoting the likelihood of conditioning effects in the amygdala and related brain structures involved in conditioning.

    There are no brain structures related to conditioning

    This is true of PTSD, another conditioning disorder


    No PTSD is not a conditioning disorder it is a complex neurobiological disorder


    n Gupta 2002 (1), in addition to chronic arousal of the HPA axis and sympathetic systems, it is hypothesised that during the trauma, a "stress signature" effect occurs where aspects of the immune system are also re-triggered chronically after onset. This refers to conditioning in the immune system, and recent

    The HPA axis is depressed in patients with ME







    In rats, the amygdala's involvement in conditioned immune responses has recently been confirmed, in association with the insular cortex and the hypothalamus (6).



    6) Pacheco-Lpez G, Niemi MB, Kou W, Hrting M, Fandrey J, Schedlowski M. Neural substrates for behaviorally conditioned immunosuppression in the rat. J Neurosci. 2005 Mar 2;25(9):2330-7.

    That is an interesting interpretation as the study actually says that the amgydala
    Is NOT involved in the conditioned response

    ). In contrast, Am and VMH lesions did not affect conditioned taste aversion


    This refers to conditioning in the immune system, and recent neurobiological research is showing that the rat model of immune system conditioning can also occur in humans(5)

    (5) Marion U, Goebel et al. B
    behaviourial Conditioning of Antihistamine Effects in Patients with Allergic Rhinitis. Psychotherapy and Psychosomatics, Vol 77, No.4, pages 227-234; May 2008

    No it does not note the psychobabble.


    It is likely that the hypothalamus carries out the instructions to stimulate the HPA axis directly from the amygdala (as has been demonstrated in animal experiments (7)), as well as aspects of the immune system. Furthermore, the amygdala also projects directly to the sympathetic nervous system.

    (7) Ledoux, J. (1998), The Emotional Brain (Pheonix) chapters 6-9

    That is unpublished data written in a book!

    Finally some comments about the Medical hypothesis journal that contained Gupta,s original 2002 paper.

    Medical Hypotheses was founded in 1975 by physiologist David Horrobin, who was the editor-in-chief of the journal until his death in 2003 as well as the head of the Schizophrenia Association in Britain.[4] Horrobin was a controversial figure, a scientist and entrepreneur best known for his promotion of evening primrose oil as a treatment for diseases, leading the British Medical Journal (BMJ) to predict that he "may prove to be the greatest snake oil salesman of his age."[

    The most widely cited article[13] from Medical Hypotheses was published in 1991 by RS Smith in which he proposed the macrophage theory of depression as an alternative to the monoamine theory of depression.[14][15][16]

    In 2007, journalist Roger Dobson published a book in which he collected and described 100 Medical Hypotheses articles called Death Can Be Cured.[17][18]

    In what The Guardian columnist Ben Goldacre called an "almost surreally crass paper", two Medical Hypotheses authors posited "mongoloid" as an accurate term for people with Down syndrome because those with Down's share characteristics with people of Asian origin, including a reported interest in crafts, sitting with crossed legs and eating foods containing monosodium glutamate (MSG).[21]



    In 2009, the journal's publisher, Elsevier, withdrew two articles written by AIDS denialists that had been accepted for publication. One of the articles, written by Peter Duesberg and David Rasnick, reportedly claimed that AIDS was not responsible for deaths in South Africa that another paper had attributed to it and misrepresented the results of medical research on antiretroviral drugs.[21]

    A review panel convened by Elsevier recommended that Medical Hypotheses adopt some form of peer review to avoid publication of "baseless, speculative, non-testable and potentially harmful ideas". Editor Bruce Charlton said that peer review went against the journal's 30-year history and is not supported by either him or the journal's editorial board.[3]

    So much for Gupta,s claim that his hypothesis was published in a peer reviewed medical journal!
  2. Countrygirl

    Countrygirl Senior Member

    Messages:
    773
    Likes:
    433
    UK
    Gerwyn, I don't think Mr Gupta has medical qualifications. From my hazy memory, he 'cured' himself of 'ME' when a student at Cambridge University and has created this retraining programme from his own experiences.
  3. starryeyes

    starryeyes Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,513
    Likes:
    4
    Bay Area, California
    Thank you for spelling that out Gerwyn. I always felt this way myself but it's really helpful to read what you have to say as you go through it step by step.
  4. Gerwyn

    Gerwyn Guest

    thank you
    i have corrected accordingly
  5. JanisB

    JanisB Senior Member

    Messages:
    223
    Likes:
    12
    Central Ohio
    Gerwyn and All,
    I just listened to sessions 1 and 2 (free on youtube) and read the 'medical hypothesis' on his website. OK, so while I disagreed with some of the things he had to say about CFS etiology (especially since all diseases are caused to some extent by stressors to the body), I am wondering if you think his idea that the amygdala is hyperactive/hyperreactive has any validity?

    I got myself 95% recovered from CFS-ME 3 times, and relapsed 4, so I've been well several times in the course of the last 23 years (15 of them on disability). However, every time there is a very stressful event or series of events in my life, my body gets switched into a hypervigilant state and all the techniques of calming I've learned (e.g. yoga, meditation, etc) don't do anything, and within a few days or weeks I have relapsed, needing 5-6 years each time to pull out of it. It seems to me that the excessive stress hormones and other chemicals must create neural damage, endothelial dysfunction, digestive dysfunction, and so forth, which is why it takes 5-6 years to repair the damage. The only reason I would do this program is so that my body would not overreact to stimuli when my mind was calm and did not view the stimulus as a threat. Do you think this is possible?

    Otherwise, the program would be a waste of time and money.
  6. gracenote

    gracenote All shall be well . . .

    Messages:
    1,508
    Likes:
    42
    Santa Rosa, CA
    Janis,

    I'm just wondering if your experience with meditation and yoga has already given you the skills that you would learn with AR. Like I said, I'm just wondering. I've watched Gupta's free videos and have also read his paper. I'm intrigued with his program and like the fact that patients can do it at home on their own time. But I always wonder what is driving to overreaction in the first place. Why the HUGE response to what most body systems would be able to take in stride?

    If you do decide to try his program, I would really like to hear how it goes for you.
  7. Gerwyn

    Gerwyn Guest

    the HPA axis is depressed or dyregulated in ME Guptas views dont explain any of the observable features involved in the aetiology of ME.gupta claims that his work is peer reviewed it is not.Simple meditation techniques can be very helpful ib dealing with the stress caused by the ilness.in my view dont waste your money
  8. Frank

    Frank Senior Member

    Messages:
    848
    Likes:
    7
    Europe
    Thankyou Gerwyn, i was foolish to immediatly order the programme being hopeless as i was at the time. Ofcourse i didn't commit to it 6 months in a row every single day, who would do something like that? It's to simple.. Gupta to me is out..

See more popular forum discussions.

Share This Page