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Americans on Disability - milking the system

Discussion in 'Finances, Work, and Disability' started by roxie60, May 7, 2012.

  1. roxie60

    roxie60 Senior Member

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    Central Illinois, USA
    At least according to this poster - I disagree. Sadly there are going to be able people milking the system but to classify all those on disability as milking the system is irresponsible. Yet this opionion will be read with disdain by many who cant fathom why not everyone can will their bodies to work. I see the day if not already here people on disability will be considered slackers instead of sick and bankrupt governments (bankrupt on so many levels not just financially) will relagate those approved disability as completely bedridden, not realizing by trying to make others work when they are sick will justlead to beddridden disability or worse. God have mercy on us. They let fraud prevail then all suffer even the innocent.

    http://www.zerohedge.com/news/two-charts-exposing-americas-record-shadow-welfare-state
    taniaaust1 likes this.
  2. Valentijn

    Valentijn Activity Level: 3

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    I doubt they really have strong feelings about disability. It's more that they want to have no taxes, especially ones that don't directly benefit themselves more than they pay out (in a way that they can see it clearly), and work backwards to justify all cuts in spending.
  3. alex3619

    alex3619 Senior Member

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    Not dealing with problems means they continue and may grow over time. When talking about cutting funds, its important to be very sure that it will not increase costs in other ways over time. Save a penny, spend a doubloon: unwise cuts could cost more money than they are worth. There is a whole lot of talk of cost saving - the projected future costs are enormous. So slash, slash, slash. Instead they should be investing in pre-emptive solutions including research into chronic conditions such as dementia and ME. Its not about cutting funding - its about making sure the money spent will pay big dividends in the future. This is about economic rationalism versus investing in the future. Bye, Alex
    taniaaust1 and L'engle like this.
  4. SilverbladeTE

    SilverbladeTE Senior Member

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    Divide and Conquer

    "See, these fraud scum are stealing from you! Cut them off!"
    thus, distracting form the TRILLIONS paid out/stolen/loused up by banker scum (lol, now that was "socialism" of a form which is ok to numbnuts as long as the elite get aid)
    and letting the elite scum wangle excuses for reducign taxes they pay (kill off welfare, kill off the disabled)

    folk need to wake up....
    Nazis won't come back with the swastika, jackboot and antiSemitism this time, that was because of the German culture/problems etc, it was unique to that situation
    instead what we are getting is corporate fascism

    US citizens have now lost right to lawful peaceful assembly for grievances by a clever little jiggery pokering with the law....ah, the Constittuion, not what it was once worth.
    http://www.inquisitr.com/206017/president-obama-signs-anti-protest-bill-h-r-347/#UeQxwAIB4CgQG9A0.99
    The Elite didn't like Occupy Wall Street etc, and are making sure they can do the "Bonus Army" or whatever they wish, again.
    Left, Right, don't matter, they are all sellout SOBs.
    :/
    xrayspex likes this.
  5. jimells

    jimells Senior Member

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    What he said.

    The fact that these policies are penny-wise and pound-foolish is irrelevant. The U.S. is a harsh, barbaric society. If you can't make a rich person richer, then you're trash. This message comes through to me loud and clear every time I have to deal with the social service agencies who claim to exist to help people like me.

    The latest indignity was a phone call last week from the state welfare office informing me I needed to have my former employer submit a letter that I was not working for them any more. Obviously anyone who is poor is a liar and a thief and can't be trusted to tell the truth about anything. Of course they could just call the boss themselves, but no, *I* have to do their job for them.

    The irony is that it won't affect my benefits at all. Even working part time my income was so low that I qualified for the max food ration benefit. If I prove I'm no longer working at all and my income is now zero, I won't get any more food or any other kind of benefit. When I had to quit working and I asked them how am I going to survive on no money, the response was, "Go to the Salvation Army". That's it.

    I do have non-cash benefits from some other programs, no thanks to the state welfare office, whose workers appear to be ignorant of all programs they don't directly administer. I get a credit for furnace oil (cut in half this past winter) and a small rebate on property taxes.

    Even though the state governor never misses an opportunity to call poor people parasites, he also never mentions all the parasites that make a living off my illness, like the doctors, hospitals, test labs, and drug companies getting paid by Medicaid.

    There are also private 'not-for-profit' agencies that interview people signing up for programs, an agency that gets paid to send me tiny gas-reimbursement checks when I go to the doctor (those little checks really help), the giant bank that gets a commission every time I use the food ration card, the oil company getting paid to bring me oil, etc.

    Gee, maybe instead of being stigmatized, society should be thankful I'm generating all this economic activity!
    SaraM likes this.
  6. pine108kell

    pine108kell Senior Member

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    There is definitely an increasing inclination in the US to blame anyone that is struggling or not a "job producer" as a second class citizen without any regard to how they may have gotten into that situation, disability included.

    At the same time, there is an inclination for extremism over pragmatism and anti-scientific world outlook and tribalism over science and moderation. These developments are very disturbing. I never imagined finding myself struggling with such a crushing disability that no one really understands and few seem to care. Its easy to be smug when you are not hit with something like this.
  7. Carrigon

    Carrigon Senior Member

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    I really believe there are very, very few people who are frauding or taking advantage of the system. We get in way too little money for that. You can't have a life on this small income and still pay bills, rent, car, pet, not to mention needing clothing and food and all the things not even covered by foodstamps. Papergoods, vitamins, soap, shampoo, toothpaste, deodorant. A million things not covered. No one would choose to live like this.

    People have way too many misconceptions of where their tax dollars actually go. I have a cousin who absolutely hates disabled people with a passion because in her twisted view, we are taking her personal tax dollars. And there is no convincing her of the real truth. Maybe a penny or two goes to our disability. If even that. The rest goes to fund foreign wars, the military and Congress' back pockets. We see very, very little of anyone's real money. Plus, those who worked are technically living off their own money they put into the Social Security system.

    There's no one who would choose to live like this. Even the laziest person still manages to get a lazy job sitting at a desk somewhere. People in general really aren't that lazy or looking to fraud anyone.

    I've met so many people over the years who have said to me how lucky I am that I get to stay at home all day. But none of them have tried it. They have no clue how boring and awful it is to not be able to go out. And I'm willing to bet after about two weeks of it, they would be begging to go back to work.
  8. mellster

    mellster Marco

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    That is correct - I am for being fiscally conservative in every aspect and when spending cuts need to be made everything needs to be looked at, but as long as corporations (mostly banks) can privatize their gains while socializing their losses at the expense of the taxpayer and as long as we are fighting costly wars for no cause (producing more chronically ill patients as well), publishing such articles must be seen as divide and conquer and as a distraction to the real crimes committed every day. I think this is similar to the campaign against smokers who are villain-ized to such an extreme these days that it looks like they are causing more pollution than all corporations and cars altogether. As long as you can tell the outdoors smoker next to you to stop killing people you can then proudly drive away in your SUV thinking you did it again, saving the planet yet another day ;)

    roxie60 and SaraM like this.
  9. roxie60

    roxie60 Senior Member

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    You guys have had great responses!!!! I think we are going to see more of this for those disabled. Sadly it is the bloated government agencies that are the parasites on tax payers they just don't see them selves as parasites. There are some gov services that I think can be beneficial with strong oversight. But our govs have repeatedly shown their lack of common sense, fiscal responsibilty. Think of the money wasted by the GSA (they are suppose to be the accounting wachdogs), nearly 900,000 and for what, a reward for not doing their jobs and the arrogance to suggest their behavior has no consequenses. They dont produce anything, it would be different if they were creating some great new product that added to GDP, but they do not they are parasites on the tax payers dollars. I have been paying taxes for 40+ yrs, now when I am really struggling with my health issues, the govs (all levels) have foolishly spent our taxes and now what to get draconian with those who are in need. The person that said go to the Salvation ARmy should be fied and go to the Salvation Army, then there would be some funds for those in need and barely making it. These stupid people in gov dont realize they are killing the host and eventually they will be impovershed as well.
  10. SilverbladeTE

    SilverbladeTE Senior Member

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    Somewhere near Glasgow, Scotland
    Jimells
    interesting bit of history that helps explain why the USA has had a long silent stuggle with itself, regarding prejudice, intolerance etc
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boston_martyrs

    A simple "potted" version

    The Puritans were a bunch of evil, extremist ratbags, to be blunt (and a generalization of course, plenty of decent folk, but a LOT of vicious intolerant zealots). A christian "Taleban". Set a very bad precedent.

    And of course you can bring up what was going on in UK, too, of course.
    During the "Covenanter Rebellion" in Scotland, where folk (even kids) were tied to stakes in estuaries and left to drown, while much of the horrors were done by Cromwell (Puritans) and even more so by Charles II lot, the Covenanters themselves became more extreme and at times barbarous, brutality rarely gives rise to compassion in return,and they became zealots :/
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Margaret_Wilson_(Scottish_martyr)
    jimells likes this.
  11. CFS-FIBRO-LYME

    CFS-FIBRO-LYME

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    Here is a story you should read from a year ago. In summary, the system is designed to defraud and be profitable and anyone who tries to make it work as it was sold to the masses as - "your money working for society" - is fired.

    Did you know you have no legal recourse of any kind against SS Judges? They can lie, cheat, refuse to follow the "administrative rules" of disability - not the "laws" mind you, but "administrative rules or guidelines - and you have no recourse.

    Read the comments about this case also for additional enlightenment.

    http://online.wsj.com/article/SB100...tml#project=JUDGE20110518&articleTabs=article
  12. alex3619

    alex3619 Senior Member

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  13. caledonia

    caledonia

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  14. Sushi

    Sushi Moderator and Senior Member Albuquerque

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    OK, then they better dedicate some money to get us all well by then!

    Sushi
  15. caledonia

    caledonia

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    http://content.usatoday.com/communi...-social-security-obama-geithner-republicans/1

    "Medicare's trust fund will run dry in 2024, five years earlier than forecast just last year,"

    "The Medicare figures are suspect, because they rely on billions of dollars in savings projected under the health care law signed by President Obama last year. Without passage of that law, the Medicare trust fund would be projected to run out in 2016, just five years from now."

    :eek:

    "If the trust funds run out, the programs no longer would be able to pay full benefits."

    So you wouldn't be totally cut off, but be receiving somewhat less money.
  16. mellster

    mellster Marco

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    I am very torn on this subject because I understand the wish for government regulations to dedicate more money to the ones in need. There are 2 problems though, one is that the money doesn't exist - we are already broke, and the limited amount that can be printed will debase the currency and bring more people into poverty. Second is that whenever a government program is enacted a substantial amount of the money allocated is spent on bureaucracy and paying the gov employees who never want to lose their job again, no matter how useless it may become. Since the EU disaster you have now close to 50% of all spending in the EU allocated to fund government salaries and bureaucracy, no good. And the profits you see everyday going to the banks and their management is not real, earned, GDP money either, it is money stolen from the poor and middle class and redistributed to the wealthy, a reverse robin-hood system so to speak. There are hardly any real profits coming from real manufacturing or inventions anymore and we need to change that. I don't think that without a radical change of mindset in everybody we will change anything, and that includes doctors as well who need to go back to getting more gratification from their patient's thankfulness than an increase in their salary. For example we went to a doc here in Sicily cause our son had a skin infection and he took 30 minute examination plus writing out prescriptions for ABx and charged us...nothing (he won't get reimbursed for that form the gov either and even though I told him we had travel insurance) just because we were visiting and he was acquainted with my sisters family. Nice when these things still happen today.
    alex3619 likes this.
  17. SilverbladeTE

    SilverbladeTE Senior Member

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    Somewhere near Glasgow, Scotland
    Lot of the USA's wealth was lost on insane wars and grotesque, cirminal military spending/waste (The cost of the Iraq/Afghanistan wars is about $3 to $4 TRILLION, it could have been a lot less but that scumbag Rumsfeld dismissed any commander who told him how much it would really take ot achieve a "victory" so he forced it done on the cheap, didn't listen to all the warnings, disarmed the Iraqi Army etc....and all he got was to resign at the cost of nealrty 5000 AMerican lives....ah huh)

    the amounts simply lost in "Black holes" of defence research/procurement are staggering and are absolutely treasonous, crippling US military so folk can steal billions.

    And then there's the insane waste of the nuclear arsenal, 5000+ active warheads and huge numbers of platforms is beyond insanity, that all takes money and resources away from the regular military who are actually USEFUL.

    The Pentagon has a $3 billion Public Relations budget iirc!

    But vastly more is lost though because corproations run rings round the tax system.

    So,the USA is not broke, it's starving itself to death by waste and letting scum not pay their share.
    It's more akin to annorexia, than famine.
    Social spending is a damn sight more freakin use than lettign some douchebag have a third mansion, or a corporation evade 90% of it's tax
    if they don'tlike it they should be stripped of their citizenship if they think they can just go abroad, they don't want ot be Americans, fine, strip their citizenship, declare them traitors, for that's what they are, they have conspired with a hostile foreign entity against the state, "corproations" can't have it both ways, they are not citizens (a corproation is NOT a "Human being"!), and if they threaten the state and delcare themselves stateless so they can evade tax elsehwere by moving abroad, they are thus enemy combatants! :devil:

    But America has ot leanr such lessons, nations mature and learn liek their citizens. USA is a great place with greatpeople, but it's so vast, that coherent social conscience still hasn't occured, and will only occur after great national suffering and time. Took the Uk the butchery of two world wars, realizing what creating the chattel slave trade had done, seeing the EMprie was a load of evil crap, to "grow up" in fits and starts
    But recenlty had backslid like the USA

    This is the 21st Century, not the 19th, not the 11th.
    We grow up or we *all die out*. We are running out of "wriggle room".
    USA's insanely greedy leaders have crippled it, if it had spent it's fortune on free higher education for all and dtiched the Drug War idiocy, it's crime problem would have dropped (it's vastly cheaper actually to spend money on education than imprisonment and it empowers society), and most importantly, the USA would be still tearign way ahead in science and technology...China is rapidly closing up and will surpass the USA.

    Note: lot of my family are American. I am *not* "AntiAMerican", lot of the people and things I love/play/read come from the US :)
    A real friend will tell you when you in deep crap
  18. mellster

    mellster Marco

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    Agree on the wars and such but don't forget though that it is not just all black and white. For allowing the bubble to happen and burst the middle-class was somewhat complicit in the way that there was hope to quick success and wealth through leverage and just buying enough assets on credit, esp. housing. It takes two to sign a fraudulent loan, one criminal bankster and one complicit buyer who is willing to lie and overstate income etc. Sure some didn't know exactly what they were getting themselves into, but there has been no doubt a get-rich-quick-and-have-a-lofty-pension mentality amongst the baby boomers and at least one or two generations before and ours is just the one that happened to become the unlucky one that had the bubble burst. Not being able to afford a home is not poverty in my book (just rent then and get used to a smaller place), starving and not being able to pay for medical bills is. A lot of people voted in Obama because he promised help with home-ownership ("he will pay my mortgage!) and other gimmicks. I am all for taxing the wealthy in times of need and have everyone pay their fair share, but if that money is used to pay for somebodies mortgage and to artificially suppress the interest rates because they otherwise could not afford it then it does not a iota benefit the ones really in need and instead makes the banks/rich even richer. Inflation has been rampant (except for tech gadgets but you cannot eat or live in those) and that's why you have to pay a shitload for everything today (including doctor's bills who want to keep up with the great lifestyle they are used to).
  19. TheMoonIsBlue

    TheMoonIsBlue Senior Member

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    I am 100% sure that there are far, far more people with ME/CFS who get ZERO support from the govt. than those that do.

    If you dont have enough work credits- you can't get disability (i.e. young people)

    If you aren't legally disabled, pretty sure you can't get medicaid in most states. You get bubkas. And you can't get health insurance from an employer since you are too ill to work and you can't buy it since you have no money, and oh yeah they won't sell you a policy if you have CFS or FM anyways. Any solutions for this problem?

    I am pretty sure you have to be a "Working Poor" person to get welfare, or a mother with children living below the poverty line.

    I know there are people who "milk the system"........but I am cetain there are more who need and deserve legitimate help and do not get it. That, makes for a very sad world and desperate people.
  20. SilverbladeTE

    SilverbladeTE Senior Member

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    Somewhere near Glasgow, Scotland
    You do not hang everyone because 1 in 100,000 is a murderer!
    yeah there's fraudsters, so what, BIG DEAL, jeesh
    proverbial throwing out the baby with the bath water and shows folks' in-built prejudices, that someone getting things wrongly is more important to many, than a hell of a lot more innocent folk getting things they need to survive.

    USA, most powerful nation on the planet, yet has millions lacking healthcare, even proper food and shelter. A million and a half kids homless, yet spends fortunes on wars and apocalyptic bombs...
    Madness :(
    Costs for education, health and welfare when done right are tiny compared to the fortunes lost on wars and tax evasion because they bring massive improvements in societal stability, less violent crime and innovation leading commerce...and such costs are NOTHING compared to the cost of eventual societal collapse

    Sorry to break folks illusion, but there isn't going to be a job for everyone, as time goes on, less and less jobs...and more and more folk living who'd have died because of improvements in medical tech but we still cannot heal them to full fitness.
    So unless we get our priorities straight, then extermination of the un-economic will be the order of the day...as we are seeing unfold.

    One of the things that drove the insane wars in Europe from the Middle Ages on, was the rise of the "dukes". Families who's wealth had amassed such proportions, they threatened even kings (often became kings at the point of a sword)
    Similar things happened in ancient Rome, Chinese and British Empire.
    Such power and wealth in such few hands, acting like a "Black hole", as their schemes sucked in yet more wealth..taking it from others...and divorced from dealing with ordinary folk who were no longer their serfs in a "two way street" of cooperation and loyalties
    ie no more "client respect"
    the dukes simply didn't care if their wars, agitations, assassinations etc caused mayhem, it never bothered them!

    Today, we have the corprations, not dukes, similar problem.
    Who owns the Wall Street journal?
    Ah huh
    Who tabloids have driven a seeming endless tirade of xenophobia for decades, those same tabloids have attacked the disabled mercislessly in the UK.


    So folk bitch over a few fraudsters while those up top laugh at their successful "divide and conquer" strategy as they bring the chopper down on same folks' necks :/

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