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Amalgam Tooth Fillings cause of ME ?

Discussion in 'General ME/CFS News' started by AndrewB, Dec 1, 2011.

  1. jeffrez

    jeffrez Senior Member

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    Composites can be toxic, too, but I don't know much about those. I think a lot depends, like many things, on type of composite, individual sensitivity, and maybe even other factors.

    I had all porcelain crowns put on, after having a bad reaction to gold crowns (gold on the inside, where it adheres to the tooth) and having to have all those removed and then redone all over again with the porcelain.

    When my mercury doctor & I were trying to find out the reason for all the symptoms getting worse again almost as soon as the gold ones were put on, he had me touch a copper wire to the underside part of one of the crowns, to the small kind of edge of the tooth near the gum where a small amount of the gold was exposed. Apparently I wasn't grounded properly and there was a loud electrical popping noise and a jolting sensation that caused me to jump about a foot off the ground (figuratively speaking - in reality it was probably more like a few inches). That's when we knew -- in my case, anyway -- that there was a strong electrical component to the metals that was causing a lot of the problems -- we are bioelectrical beings, after all.

    And sure enough, once the gold crowns were removed & the ceramic ones put on, the symptoms abated again almost immediately, just like they had before when the mercury was taken out (there was about a 2-week period between when I had the amalgams removed & the porcelain crowns made with my teeth ground down and just bare - lots of eating through straws and sucking in my cheeks to avoid anything too cold hitting them!). The effects of the gold crowns were not as strong as the amalgams, but there's a lot more mass in the fillings than there is on the thin coating of gold on the bottom of the crowns.

    I probably never would have believed any of this if I hadn't experienced it first-hand. But that's exactly how it happened, as real as me sitting here typing this to you now. Two family members witnessed the gold electrical popping noise event, and of course many people, friends, colleagues, history of allergy docs, etc. witnessed the dramatic difference before & after having the amalgams removed. Caveat emptor when it comes to mercury amalgams, or any metal in the mouth at all.
  2. Jenny

    Jenny Senior Member

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    Just allergic reactions I think.

    Jenny
  3. jeffrez

    jeffrez Senior Member

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    Could very well be. Undoubtedly that was a major component, maybe the main reason. Gold/silver elsewhere on my body doesn't cause reactions, however, so ultimately the reason is still unknown to me. I only know it has something to do with metals specifically in the mouth.
  4. justinreilly

    justinreilly Stop the IoM & P2P! Adopt CCC!

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    I was just speculating based on the limited reading i'd done on the subject. so ignore my conjecture if you like.
  5. Mark

    Mark Acting CEO

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    Moderator: There's a lot of emotional and inflammatory language from Mr Kite and Vitalic on this thread, and too much for me to deal with it all tonight without mangling the thread to pieces. So for now I'll just try highlighting some of the rude and insulting language that frequently comes up in arguments like this, and ask everyone posting on this thread to avoid such emotional language, try to focus on facts (whether scientific evidence or personal experience) and to respect that this is a controversial subject and people are entitled to post on both sides of the argument - provided they show respect for other people's right to hold a different point of view.

    Vitalic #9
    The first emotional and inflammatory language used on this thread, and no, calling treatments 'bogus' is not helpful. The sentence after that is fine (though I don't know if it's strictly true): "There is no evidence that amalgam fillings are harmful at all, let alone the cause of this illness". That's a statement about the evidence - why not just stick to that and cut out the insults? Similarly, labelling doctors and researchers as "quacks" is just insulting to people who interpret the scientific evidence differently to yourself. And calling the treatment 'nonsense' is similarly lacking in informational content. If you want to expose a point of view as unscientific, resorting to name-calling is not a good way to do it.

    Mr Kite #12
    Again, insulting language, calling anyone who supports the opposing point of view 'ignorant' - again, it adds nothing but heat and tension to the argument. Vitalic is also right to point out that you should really provide evidence or references for the alarming claims that follow in that post.

    Vitalic #14
    Likely to cause offence and provoke an angry reaction. Perhaps find a gentler way to speculate on the possible explanations for somebody else's experience?

    Since you haven't reported any posts on this thread, commenting on how you think the moderation ought to work is not helpful.

    Then educate away. Labelling treatments as "frauds, charlatans, scams, pseudo-science" etc is not education. It's just hurling insults. Why don't you just stick to the evidence, if it's so compelling?

    Mr Kite #17
    Stating on the thread that you are reporting someone is not necessary, it's just inflammatory. Telling people they need an infraction is also not OK.

    I hope the above explanations illustrate the kind of insulting, rude, inflammatory language that is not acceptable on this forum. The above posts are likely to be deleted at a later date for this reason. Slanging matches are not welcome here. Other posters have managed to post on this thread on both sides of this argument without being rude. Mr Kite and Vitalic: no more of it please, on this or any other thread.
  6. mrpanoff

    mrpanoff

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    Thanks for the info. I'm more worried about toxicity issues though when it comes to composites, as they leak trace amounts of xenoestrogenic toxins, such as Bisphenol A.


    Mr.Kite


    Glad for you, porcelain is the most healthy material of them all, although it needs toxic bonding agent anyway. How many fillings do you have?

    The problem is I have 15+ Filtek Supreme/Z250 fillings, and some are so small that CEREC specialists see no point in changing them. Apparently I was duped into having several healthy teeth drilled.
  7. Vitalic

    Vitalic Senior Member

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    It's utterly disingenuous to conflate the legitimate but rare cases of allergic reaction or chemical sensitivity/intolerance with the general advice given by proponents of holistic dentistry - that all amalgam fillings are toxic and require urgent removal as well as extensive nutritional re-balancing to achieve maximum "wellbeing". Allergic reactions could be triggered by any substance used in dental procedures and therefore is not specific to mercury, I was wrong to suggest your improvement must have been placebo but not wrong to point out that your improvement is not evidence that amalgam fillings are generally toxic. A lot of the comments and advice given in this thread are completely unsubstantiated, without basis and as a result dangerous. Once again, there is no evidence that amalgam fillings are toxic in the general case and in fact there is plenty of evidence that they are not toxic at all, much of the evidence is compiled in the following two articles:

    http://www.quackwatch.org/01QuackeryRelatedTopics/mercury.html
    http://www.quackwatch.org/01QuackeryRelatedTopics/holisticdent.html
    wdb likes this.
  8. Jenny

    Jenny Senior Member

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    Sorry, my comment 'just allergic reactions' was in response to mrpanof's question about the Biolab's tests.

    Jenny
  9. AndrewB

    AndrewB Senior Member

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    Hi all,

    Thanks for all the interesting info.
    What i was wondering is, how would the removal of the filings make somebody feel worse ? Im sorry if its already been explained, the brain fog is really dense right now,
    im having to read everything two or three times to digest the info.
  10. Sushi

    Sushi Moderator and Senior Member Albuquerque

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    Basically, if the very complex precautions are not taken by the dentist, you could end up with much higher exposure to mecury and murcury vapor.

    Sushi
    Helen, justinreilly and taniaaust1 like this.
  11. gu3vara

    gu3vara Senior Member

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    Just to add to the testimonials, I had them removed safely, all 10 of them, 5 years ago. I had a dmsa challenge 2 years ago test showing absolutely no mercury in my urine collection. I'm still sick, didn't change anything for me.

    Do mercury leak from fillings significantly, I can say that I doubt it now, maybe some people are prone genetically to being poisoned by mercury.
    wdb likes this.
  12. Adster

    Adster Senior Member

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  13. taniaaust1

    taniaaust1 Senior Member

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    I know that post wasnt directed to me but if something was just a placebo affect, I'd expect the symptoms to soon return esp when it comes to ME/CFS people in which its been shown that the placebo affect dont work well on compared to other groups of people.
    justinreilly likes this.
  14. taniaaust1

    taniaaust1 Senior Member

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    Over the years Ive come across quite a few who have had them removed. Some it helped helped a bit (one had an experience similar to Mr Kites and gained some major improvements), while others it didnt help at all. I havent met anyone thou who was "cured" by this.
    Maybe it is something which should be "considered" if one has a mouthful of them or another reason to get them removed.

    Im glad I havent got any of those in my mouth. I have a porcelin crown and the rest are of the other kind, (the other kind thou are said to have possible hormone disrupting affects but I think I rather that, then possibly mercury toxicity or mercury electrical exchange due to it being a metal which conducts).

    I agree with what Sushi said. Take care if you get them removed that it is a dentist who is really aware of the dangers of removal etc
  15. globalpilot

    globalpilot Senior Member

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    From following various online boards, I have seen a few that have recovered completely upon removal. And more that have recovered after a long period of chelation AND other treatments. And more yet that have not recovered since removal. But definitely nowhere near 80% recovered from removal alone.



  16. xrunner

    xrunner Senior Member

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    I'm going through the process right now. The most important for me is not to get worse as a result of it.
    The difficulty of assessing impact on health is that mercury toxicity is not that visible through tests, any test. Andy Cutler says that mercury does damage in the organs like the brain or the nerves and that chelating agents normally used in challenge tests don't get in there. My dentist says he usually sees mercury in patients' stool (no challenge), that assumes one is able to excrete it, if not one is always left with doubts.

    Regarding composites, I hate their synthetic taste, they can't be good either but unfortunately here we're settling for the least damaging.

    Just a note about biolab sensitivity tests. I had them repeated a few weeks later and they gave different results from the first test...which has led me to believe either they're a bit of a joke or sensitivity fluctuates over time and should be taken with a pinch of salt.
  17. u&iraok

    u&iraok Senior Member

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    I have a friend who had an amalgam out and it just so happened that the next day she went for a physical. The liver function test showed a score sky-high out of range! I told her to take chlorella and other things to try and get the mercury and other metals out--she already was told by a doctor that she had a lead problem. But she just waited to get tested the next week and the numbers were normal. Yeah, now the mercury and other metals have gone through the liver and are now in other parts of the body.

    I took a saliva heavy metals test and it showed mercury, as releasing from the one amalgam I have.

    Parents' amalgams can affect what is passed on to the baby. I've read even a father's. Then you get your own life load which will be even worse if your detoxification is impaired.
  18. Vitalic

    Vitalic Senior Member

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    It is rather annoying to be honest, I sometimes wonder if it's perpetuated by people that don't have the capacity to understand the current (rather complex) science and therefore find it more comforting to imagine it's something simple and easily fixable like amalgam fillings. Unfortunately this is a complex heterogeneous condition and all the current evidence points to a similarly complex cause. I'm not sure why this kind of thing gets on my nerves, I think it's because we have all this amazing research and science and some people are still discussing antiquated and long since discredited ideas that have been lingering about for decades.
  19. Whit

    Whit Senior Member

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    I have never even had a cavity my entire life, let alone a filling and I have CFS with the typical symptoms like inability to tolerate cardio exercise, high viral immune response to HHV6, EBV, etc, low natural killer cells.

    I guess one could argue that I have been exposed to mercury in some other way, my sickness worsening correlates with traveling to places where there is probably more likely toxic stuff around.

    But no amalgams here.
  20. barbc56

    barbc56 Senior Member

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    Supposedly, the most at risk population for Mercury poisoning are dentist. Don't know if they're any studies showing an increase amount of illnesses for dentists.

    Your body should be able to get rid of excess Mercury and other toxins and if it doesn't may warrant a look at your kidneys and liver. I am not talking about true toxic poisoning here such as industrial poisonings or events like Chernobyl.

    The problem with chelation is that it gets rid of the good and bad stuff, kind of like ABs. People have died from this procedure. It's a matter of positives vs. the negatives.

    Here's a good reference article about the mercury and teeth issue.
    http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/index.php/mercury-must-be-bad-if-not-in-vaccines-in-teeth/

    This reminds me, I need to make a dentist appointment. Ugh!! :>)
    wdb likes this.

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