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All gone wrong on the anti candida diet - HELP NEEDED.

Discussion in 'Fungal Infection (Yeast, Candida)' started by justy, Jun 6, 2012.

  1. justy

    justy Senior Member

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    Hi, needless to say my gut history is a long and familiar story to many of you.
    In the past i have had severe systemic candida - did an anti candida programme for a year (including no dairy or gluten) It helped many of my yeast issues - but my gut continued to be a problem.

    Now i have gone back to the anti candida programme - my sugar intake was getting out of control and the cravings were immense - brain fog was getting worse as well from all the sugar. I had also been eating moderate amounts of gluten - with no ill effect. In fact my health has been improving in general.

    After starting this latest anti candida programme my gut has got progressively more and more screwed up.
    Symptoms i am having include:
    Severe stomach pain - sensisitve to touch.
    cramping Pain in the lower left gut area (always used to be down the side but now low down)
    Nausea.
    Severe wind
    Bloating

    On top of this i am having a bad crash - after a good upwards swing for the past few months. Yes i have probably overdone it to bring on the crash - but i was feeling so good! - even the constant stomach bugs had stopped for a good while. But since the candida programme its been awful.

    So i'm not sure if its
    1. yeast die off (normally that makes me feel seedy - but not these sort of stomach issues
    2. One of the supplements i have introduced in the past few weeks is causing it (caprylic acid 400 1x daily, L glutathione, or vega probiotic with prebiotic 1x daily)
    3 another stomach bug - get about 8 a year
    4. due to the crash )i dont think so)
    5. parasites - i havent been tested for these, but many stomach problems cleared up last year on a short course of mebendazole. When thye symptoms cam eback i tired a longer course on prescription and had the most severe reaction (which can indicate a severe infestation) and so stopped the treatment as i couldnt function with the pain. Caprylic acid is also anti parasitical andthe candida diet would start to starve them as they love suagrs etc.

    Now im back to feeling like i dont want to eat - especially not allowed food - the thought of salad makes me feel awful. I also dont want to touch the supplements - which means its back to the drawing board once more of stopping most of them and then gradually reintroducing them one at a time. I have done this so many times now and it takes ages! every tim ei think i am getting soemwehere this happens and i must start all over again - im so sick of it!

    Thank yu if you have read this long post - any help or suggestions gratefully recieved - i am at my wits end.
    Please bear in mind that i am in the UK and do not have access to medications - tests or the money to pay for testing or the energy to sort it all out. I just need simple ideas that i can implement easily.
    All the best, Justy.
  2. taniaaust1

    taniaaust1 Senior Member

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    Ive got no ideas.. so just sending a ***hugz***

    I hope you can work out what is going on soon.
    justy likes this.
  3. xchocoholic

    xchocoholic Senior Member

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    Just based on your symptoms, I'd tested h pylori. Esp since you were doing so well. I don't know how common it is in the UK but my doc tested me twice for this in Fl. She said it's gotten out of control here and a lot of her pateints are showing up positive.

    My doc told me that the treatment is antibiotics. Natural treatments aren't working. I used pepto bismol in addition to my antibiotics for nausea but it's also a h pylori treatment. It's not as effective as antibiotics tho.

    Other than that, I'd stop the supplements, esp caprylic acid. I never could take that. I read that taking a variety of candida killers is the best way to get rid of this. Raw garlic, tartaric acid, pau d'arco, olive leaf, etc etc ...

    And I'd go on a bland slighlty cooked food diet. Things like baked chicken or fish, peas, asparagus ... If you need some fruit for low blood glucose problems, I'd stick to peeled pears or apples.

    Fwiw for some odd reason, my candida went down to an acceptible level last year. I've been working on it since 2005 and I've been paleo since 2008.

    hope you feel better soon ... tc ... x
  4. nanonug

    nanonug Senior Member

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    Justy, my gut has been giving me problems for decades so I know very well how much of a pain, pun intended, this is. That being said, I do actually have suggestions, based on my unfortunate experience. However, I am afraid they all require your spending money. I'll be happy to share if you change your mind.
  5. justy

    justy Senior Member

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    Hi Nanonug - suggest away!
  6. justy

    justy Senior Member

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    Thanks Xchoc. Helpful suggestions. I think i will ask my GP for H pylori testing - should be something they would be willing to do on NHS.
    Have stopped the caprylic acid. Got some olive leaf so when things settle down a bit im going to try that instead of the caprylic (- which i had taken before with good results last year)

    I also meant to say that the only relief i have had was when i stopped the diet for 2 days over the weekend - ate sugar, and bread (so some yeast) and cheese - my stomach was fine with this!
    Today it has been awful - so painful. I ate a small amount of suagr at lunchtime - which weirdly has settled it right down. This makes me think even more strobngly that this could be die off or parasites. Are bacteria in the stomach fed by sugar? just wondering if ingesting sugar could quiten that down too.

    In my experience so far, gut problems are the hardest thing to figure out. One more thing i noticed is that even though i can eat wholemeal flour and rye, i cannot eat oats without terrible side effects. (weird)
    Justy.x
  7. xrunner

    xrunner Senior Member

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    Justy,
    I'm clueless about candida, sorry.
    I can only offer an opinion about direction rather than actual remedies.

    If you're in DIY mode then it would be logical to read up as much as you can on studies etc and find what really works against yeast. There's a lot of anecdotal information around but what is it that really works?
    Personally, I have found herbs and natural remedies wholly inadequate when it comes to killing pathogens.
    Don't know whether that's applicable to yeast but with regard to bacteria, parasites and viruses they just don't work.
    And I have tried dozens of them for years.

    Also, I don't understand your strategy.
    If you found something that worked, i.e. mebendazole, why not stick to that? Parasites need various courses of treatments to get rid of them, preferably between the new and the full moon. Only that way you can target organisms in various stages of their life cycle.

    I think that they may play a larger role in CFS than ordinarily thoughts but perhaps they're not as cool (or as attractive to drs and pharmas) as certain other pathogens. Parasites such as Fry's FL-1953 and Klapow's lungworm have been linked to fatigue illness but they won't come up in ordinary testing.

    In terms of what you've been taking I noticed your probiotic dosage and it seems weak to me.
    I don't have gut issues but when on abx I need hundred of billions of live organisms in a probiotics plus a lot of saccharomyces boulardii . I heard Dr Horowitz saying the same with regard to his patients. I don't think you can overdose when it comes to probiotics, only that way you can get some retention.
    To save money you can get something as strong as VSL 3 and culture it into a yogurt. That way a single packet can give you a supply of probiotics for a few months, instead of spending hundreds on it.
    I read that tea polyphenols are effective against candida biofilm. I don't drink green tea but, if I had yeast, I certainly would and lots of it.
    I've just started eating a lot of sauerkraut and that seems great for digestion. I think cabbage is great for the stomach (there's a study somewhere about cabbage and ulcer but can't find it now).
    Chamomile tea (loose flowers) is something that soothes my stomach and intestine like not other. It's my preferred remedy. By the way it's rich in luteolin a powerful antioxidant that does many things including reducing histamine/inflammation.
    Hope this helps.

    All the best


    http://betterhealthguy.com/joomla/blog/166-advanced-topics-in-lyme-disease
    Dr. Lawrence Klapow has identified a lung worm called Cryptostrongylus pulmoni in up to 75% of patients with CFIDS. These worms may not present with expected high eosinophils or elevated IgE as they suppress the immune system. Fatigue and rashes are common complaints. The worms live primarily in the lungs and can be diagnosed by lung tissue biopsy or via sputum samples.
  8. justy

    justy Senior Member

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    Thanks X runner for the suggestions - dont know why i didnt think of chamomile tea for reducing the inflammation! will start on it straight away!

    The reason i stopped the mebendazole was becuase i was completely incapacitated with pain after the second day - such severe pain that i nearly went to the hospital - it can be a side effect, but usually only in people with large populations of parasites. Ive never been tested for them - but the trial of mebendazole makes sense. Anyway it was such a horrifying ordeal i couldnt go through it again.

    I have read up about on Dr Kaplows lungworm and it seems very interesting stuff - although there is not much out there about it still.

    I have stopped the probiotic for now, in case that was causing problems - i know it can for some people. I find the whole gut thing so confusing - so many different directions to go in - and most of the time we are scarabbling about, alone in the dark with it all.

    Thanks to everyone who has replied. Justy x
  9. Crux

    Crux Senior Member

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    Hi Justy;

    Although I've used fermented foods and probiotics for decades now, my gut troubles continued to worsen until I began to take zinc daily in ernest. It helps with the formation of mucin that coats and protects the GI tract.

    Grains, such as wheat and rye, do have good amounts of zinc, but it must be made available by neutralizing the phytate. This is done with soaking, sprouting, or fermenting the grains.

    You have such a sophisticated knowledge of nutrition, so sorry if I'm repeating what you already have tried. But I thought I'd bring this up as a possible remedy for the alleviation of wind.
  10. justy

    justy Senior Member

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    Thanks Crux - i have been reading Leon Chaitows candida book (again) and he mentions the importance of Zinc. I have some in the cupboard, so it might be worth a try. I'm sure i read on another thread (unrelated to the gut) that zinc is not good in otherways (cant win can we!)
    Thanks, Justy.
  11. madietodd

    madietodd Senior Member

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    Xrunner, how do you culture your own probiotics? Does it only work with VSL3?

    Thanks.
    Hanna likes this.
  12. xrunner

    xrunner Senior Member

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    That's how I do it with my own easyjo but you can use a maker. As I also take the maf, now I only culture it with raw milk as a source of B12.

    Slowly warm up 2 pints of milk (stir to distribute heat) till 39-40C.
    Take off the heat and pour into a glass jar
    Add one or two satchets of VSL3 and stir well (make sure there's no lumps)
    Place the jar into the easyjo (do not seal the lid)
    It's usually ready after 4-5 hours
    Take 7-8 tbsp out and place in a separate jar (use as next culture)
    Place both jars in the fridge.

    It works with Ther-biotic but it's a bit of a pain opening caps and dissolve the lumps that inevitably form. It also with kefir or s. boulardii but in this case I will warm up the milk to around 28-29C and then leave at room temperature.
  13. Athene

    Athene Never give up

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    All the natural candida treatments cause me irritation /allergies, they are all fairly irritant. The pharma grade ones give me hassle too nowadays. I would not take caprylic acid, too harsh for me.
    You need Candex for candida, it is an enzyme that dissolves their cell walls with no die off effect! Magic stuff! Richvank recommended it to me, I LOVE him for that!

    Next, have you lapsed with the diet or are you back on the no sugar regime? Fructose is the worst form of sugar for me and causes spectacular bloating and pain, so steer clear of fruit altogether and also honey of course.
    Check your probiotics for fructose, they often have FOS which is concentrated fructose and truly deadly stuff for me.
    Last time I had probiotics with that in, I blew up like a zeppelin.

    glutathione should be harmless but check for other ingredients. especially the preservatives. Sodium benzoate is evil stuff.

    I think you should consider giardiasis as the most likely parasitic candidate. It's so easy to catch. You need 15 days of flagyl to clear it up. Read up on symptoms and you'll see you have them!

    Get tested for H pylori and be prepared to get tested several times if necessary as the test does have some false negatives and neglecting it is very dangerous (it's a class one carcinogen).

    Also try taking aloe vera orally as it is very calming to the intestine. You'll need a no-sugar, nothimng else added version, which will taste pretty nasty but not unbearable.

    I am still seeking the magic solution which will make my guts never swell up like this and never hurt. But meanwhile, these are all things that certainly make it worse and which you should certainly be careful of.

    Good luck adn let up know how you get on please!
    justy likes this.
  14. nanonug

    nanonug Senior Member

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    Given that you've had problems with yeast infections in the past, these are my suggestions:
    1. Test for as much "crap" as possible using Metametrix GI Effects Complete Profile. Distributor in the UK is Nutrition Geeks.
    2. If previous test finds nothing, test for SIBO with a lactulose breath test. It's important to look for both hydrogen and methane, not just hydrogen for the breath test. Any decent GI doctor should be able to do this test. It can also be ordered via the Internet. If nothing is found on this test, you might still want to treat SIBO on an empirical basis with rifaximin/neomycin.
    3. Have GI doctor perform upper endoscopy and colonoscopy. This is probably a good idea regardless of any other tests just to make sure there isn't anything really nasty going on.
    Good luck!
    Waverunner likes this.
  15. justy

    justy Senior Member

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    Thanks for the further suggestions.

    Things have settled down again now a bit. BUT only by going OFF the diet and eating some sugar every day. I do not intend to do this for long, but couldnt take the terrible pain.

    Will start back on it all next week - not using the caprylic acid again. Have bought olive leaf extract so will try that. Also have some Garlic capsules - although in the past they always made me feel nasty and gave me plapitations.

    So sorry Athene that tyou have had these problems too! Before i cam edown withe M.E, 17 years agi i had a cast iron stomach - never had a stomach ache or bug until i was 24. Then we moved to a new town and my partner and i both had continual stomach problems. Its been never ending since then really, with one thing after another.

    Nanonug - i have finally decided, when i get some money together to have some GI testing done - cant stand this anymore. Cant afford the GI doctor though - would run into the hundreds and then thousands to have the tests done privately. Will have to muddle through as best i can. Thats whats so great about this site - others can tell you what helped them and what tests to go for.

    Take care, Justy.
    Aileen likes this.
  16. xks201

    xks201 Senior Member

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    I recommend a probiotic called prescript-assist or progurt. I have not personally tried progurt but I have heard good things about it. I think candida in particular is evident of dysbiosis, which almost always happens after repeated antibiotic use.
  17. Athene

    Athene Never give up

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    Justy,
    Try biting the garlic capsules so you just get the oil without swallowing the gelatine. There's another member here who gets MSG type adverse reactions from gelatine capsules (palpitations and generally feeling ill) so that could possibly be the problem you get.
    On the other hand it could be the garlic itself! I get too much bloating and wind from garlic. I can never decide if it's the fructose or a mini herx reaction, since it does kill off lots of infections very effectively.

    I am planning to try olive leaf extract too, soon. Apparently it is a fantastic antiviral, so if there is an enterovirus behind this, it should help.

    I also get problems from NOT eating. Basically if I go over 2 hours without putting something in my mouth, I get the tummy bloating. It blows up to about 8 months pregnant adn tha pain is just awful. I nearly always go for someting starchy as this works best at keeping everything calm.

    There was a time when not eating always made me feel my best. The fact that something inside me gets angry and starts making gas when it is hungry makes me think..... well, bacteria and parasites can make gas. Bacteria do it by fermenting carbs so it's probably not them.
    How do parasites make gas? I keep coming back to giardiasis or some other parasite. Giardia lamblia makes more gas when there is oxygen present. Could eating affect this? As you can tell, I don't know, but there must be something relevant here!

    Another line of thought I am trying to investigate is allergies. I have been told allergic reactions in the intestine produce gas. How on earth can they do that? It makes no sense to me and there must be some other mechanism that the allergy triggers.
    I have tried taking an antihistamine before each meal (Daosin, it's a special one that clears out histamine, as opposed to normal antihistamines which simply block receptor sites but leave the stuff in your body). That definitely reduces the severity of symptoms, so food allergies must be contributing to the general bloating and pain.

    Yes, blah blah. All just thinking out loud.
  18. justy

    justy Senior Member

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    Hi Athene, your thinking out loud is all good! I seem to relate to a LOT of what you say.

    Was awake nearly all last night with terrible stomach pain and bloating/wind. Then at 5 am started having severe heartburn. I just feel like i dont want to put anyhting in my stomach today - but like you i know if i dont the pain will increase. I'm tempted to try and borrow the money for some testing, to see if i can get to the bottom of this (pun intended)
    The metametrix test suggested by Nananoug looks good - but its £300! i might start a seperate thread to see which test everyone rates most highly - metametrix or Genova diagnostics. The advantage with Genova is that Dr Myhill will order it and interpret for me - with a letter to my GP - but i dont know if the test is as comprehensive or if the labs are considered equal.

    Like you i also consider allergy - but its so hard to work out what! I have recently identified that, althouhg i seem to be able to eat wheat Gluten i cannot eat oats at all - i blow up like im at 9 months with twins. I looked this up on the net - as oats are always considered safe - even for some coeliacs. Anyway, there is a protein called avenin in oats and some people are (rarely) allergic or sensitive to it.

    Today i have been trying to work out what i could eat as a gentle diet for my poor digestive system. What makes it hard for me is that i dont eat meat - and i am not going to start. I do know that potatoes never seem to bother me. Rice does sometimes. Vegetables seem ok. Who knows really what to do, i cant live on steamed vegetables.

    Take care, Justy x
  19. globalpilot

    globalpilot Senior Member

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    Hi Justy,
    A couple of thoughts came to mind when I read your post.
    a. aloe vera juice - it is antiinflammatory and it may help soothe your intestinal tract as you search for the root cause. I've heard various ancedotal reports of it helping pain and also found a study on pubmed detailing the antiinflammatory mechanism.
    b. do you take digestive enzymes ? there is a current thread here where a few were discussing how the protease enzymes were hurting their gut

    GP
    justy and Athene like this.
  20. Athene

    Athene Never give up

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    A bit more thinking aloud.

    Oats do that to me too. I'm allergic to gluten but it doesn't blow me up the way oats do. I think it could possibly be simply that oats have a lot of fibre or starch that bacteria in the gut are very good at digesting, producing gases as a byproduct - the exact same effect as beans.
    In the absense of expensive allergy testing we'll probably never resolve this one!

    As justy said, aloe vera juice is great. I was recently advised to try that by my lyme doc. It is helping LOTS.

    I also just remembered that Omega 3 oils help probiotic bacteria stick to the walls of the intestine (instead of moving on down into the toilet) so it may help to take those. You don't get instant results, but gradually things can improve a bit.

    Heartburn following the pain and wind makes me wonder if you are grinding to a halt inside? Sometimes my stomach takes hours and hours before it decides to empty, or else everything just stops in the duodenum and lurks there. This general backing up can initiate anywhere and makes nasty symptoms gradually develop along the digestive tract in reverse, till you get back to the stomach and you eventually feel it as heartburn. I'm not saying this is it, but it could be.
    When this happens to me I am always torn between eating more, which sometimes triggers a bit of movement at last, or not eating, as I feel so bloated and horrible inside.
    Two things that sometimes help are drinking loads and loads of water (though I feel terribly nauseous if I do that without eating something first) and taking psyllium husk an hour after each meal (you start with a tiny amount and increase a little each day, plus plenty of water).

    Here are some safe food ideas which never give me bother

    eggs (especially scrambled)
    rice (white only, not wholegrain)
    bananas
    kiwi
    most vegetables if boiled and pureed into soup (sometimes I cannot eat them normally but puree is just about always OK) provided I add a big slosh of olive oil in the blender (without oil they DO bother me).
    KDM's very good nutritionist advised me never to eat carbs without fat alongside them, and this was very good advice. It reduces the fermentation.

    The most dangerous things for me are

    yeast (evil stuff!)
    All spices including pepper
    tea
    coffee
    alcohol
    ready mixed herbs (but not ones sold as one individual herb - it's the mixing agent that they add)
    stock cubes, all types (no idea what, it's clearly something they don't have to put on the label)
    vineagar and anything fermented (including mayonnaise)
    sugar especially fructose
    tomatoes (I'm allergic so that may be a special case for me)
    and absolutely worst of all, anything at all containing sulphur based preservatives (sulphur dioxide, sodium metabisulphite etc, there are about ten of them and they are in all dried fruit, ready fruit based deserts, many fruit juices, rice milk, soya milk, etc and do not have to be declared on the label). My husband calls these compounds "the nuclear bomb".
    justy likes this.

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