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Alkalizing Solutions Such as Sodium Bicarbonate

Discussion in 'General Treatment' started by pone, May 31, 2014.

  1. pone

    pone

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    I'm wondering if any of you have developed any electrolyte solutions to create alkalinity in the blood and try to fight the very acidifying affects of CFS. For me, after exercise, I get a terrible acid accumulation in the muscles that my body just cannot process normally. It results in muscle weakness on day one, followed by a more metabolic acidosis on day two that leaves me very fatigued and breathing hard to expel the acid through respiration.

    I have had a lot of luck with taking sodium bicarbonate to clear the acid from my muscles. I definitely improve my breathing and feel better after a half-teaspoon of sodium bicarbonate, and that suggests that there is a pH problem going on here.

    The main problem here is that this delivers a large sodium dose to the body, which I don't think is very healthy if you have to take the bicarbonate throughout the day. I have tried to find an alternative but so far am having mixed success. I tried potassium bicarbonate, but for whatever reason it appears to burn my stomach. I tried potassium citrate, which I tolerate very well, but that doesn't seem to alkalize as effectively. Maybe we have someone whose biochemistry knowledge is better than mine who can explain this result and suggest alternatives?

    I read on several sites that sodium bicarbonate cannot survive being neutralized by stomach acid. If you make the mistake of using it together with food, I understand this point, since the stomach would close off entrance to the intestine and flood the stomach with acid. But - for whatever reason - when I drink the bicarbonate one hour before any meal, some of it seems to get by acid and increases alkalinity of the blood. Maybe someone can explain that is happening as well.
  2. pone

    pone

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    I just had a thought that might have some merit on this issue. If the stomach is producing more acid in order to neutralize the sodium bicarbonate, that is in itself alkalizing to the body. That acid has to come from somewhere, so the body is borrowing from its acid to create the stomach acid.
  3. manna

    manna Senior Member

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    i doubt that someone with me/cfs has the stomach acid to neutralise bicarb. you need alkaline tissues to support a healthily acidic stomach, and if you have that then you don't need bicarb. that piece of info might be in relation to "healthy" people, or those with conditions that don't majorly impact on digestion. wddty (what doctors don't tell you) website once ran an article that indicated that 90% of fok with with me/cfs have very low or no stomach acid. this is, in part, because the tissues are acidic.

    things like bicarb are only short term solutions..to remove distress or severe constipation. diet, and envionment, will be key to maintaining or increasing alkalinity. the "hay diet" is prized for addressing the acid/alkaline balance of the body. what causes acidicity...could write a list as long as book. meds, some herbs, anything you're allergic too, soda pop, aerobically fermented food, mixing concentrated starches with concentrated proteins, pesticides, personal and domestic care chemicals, trauma, anxiety..etc etc...obviously not all avoidable but must be avoided to the extent whereby alkalinity is increasing.

    electrically speaking, positive charge, which is inflammation and/or acidity, is neitralised immediately something enters the body. net charge will reduce and the stomach lining cannot prevent the conduction of charge. same if you have an epsom salts bath...some does enter through the skin to alkalize physically but the transmission of charge to the water is also occurring, imo.

    the lungs and the kidneys are the two organs most closely associated with balancing your ph...because they have one on each side of the body so can balance postive and negative.
  4. pone

    pone

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    I think you have the science of this wrong. Cells in your stomach create hydrochloric acid as needed. They do this by splitting sodium chloride to two chemicals... HCL and sodium bicarbonate (an alkalizing buffer).

    The HCL remains in the stomach, and the sodium bicarbonate is sent into the blood stream to be delivered to the other organs.

    So your stomach gets acid to break down food, and an alkaline buffer is sent to the blood serum, where it will help to neutralize other sources of acid.

    It makes no sense that most CFS patients would have no stomach acid, because most of these patients suffer from low level chronic metabolic acidosis. There blood serum is tending toward acidity. If they do have low stomach acid, I think it reflects some other disease condition, not CFS.

    The whole point of my post was that sodium bicarbonate is a short-term fix and I wanted a more sustainable long-term solution.

    That said, if your body is creating enough acidity, there is no way you are going to eat a plate full of fruit and other alkaline foods. There are other side effects to worry about (too much sugar, too much fructose) from over eating those foods. It's quite useful to have a good electrolyte formula that is healthful as well as alkalizing. I was hoping that potassium citrate would do that for me, but it is not having the same effect as sodium bicarbonate.

    If you do aerobic exercise and the next two days you spend panting that is clearly your body going into metabolic acidosis, and your lungs are compensating with respiratory alkalosis. The lungs exhale carbonic acid in the form of CO2. Respiration is being used to shed acid.

    The body in that situation is screaming full blast to you that you are too acid, and it is desparately trying to shed the acid. I can't see any logical reason you wouldn't try to help the body get rid of the excess acidity faster.
  5. manna

    manna Senior Member

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    sure they do, in healthy people.
    in the perfect situation. is this straight out of a book?
    yes but one might rightly assume that this doesn't happen in a chronic illness such as me/cfs.

    no stomach acid means the food ferments and degrades to acids causing metabolic acidosis. healthy stomach acid, as you allude to, means no fementation of food leading to acids and also when the food is processed correctly, then the pancreas dumps a bicarb solution onto food in the small intestine, preventing metabolic acodsis...so you cannot have healthy stomach acid and metabolic acidosis.

    agreed
    like what? ibs, and various digestive upsets are very common in me/cfs. many have tried supplementing with betane etc...doesn't work in my experience. id be very surprised if anyone, let alone with me/cfs, had a stomach working as you suggest. acid reflux is now thought to be caused by low stomach acid causing fermentation of foods into acids. so although it "feels" acdic, acid reflux is caused by low stomach acid.


    hay diet is a long term solution, as is looking after your kidneys and lungs. (note how your breathing feels better post bicarb supplementation. acid waster in the colon affects the surface of the lungs. try salt inhalers...another longterm alkalising solution.

    you mean creating too much acidity? whilst fruits ferment to cause acidity, surely alkaline foods will be benefical? don't over eat them? an electrolyte formula might be quite handy, for short term relief. perhaps some find adjusting diet too arduous?

    if i exercise i digest food less, so it ferments to acids. in the colon acid waste irritates the lungs.

    getting rid of it faster can be problematic, as you yourself think..."too much sodium". theres a logical reason from you. also magnesium can be dangerous for the heart. quick alkalizing solutions can be fairly dangerous some times. ive had heart probs from epsom salts. probably some are good, sometimes, for some people. if we're looking to address acidosis, constantly, with electrolytes, i think we'll find nothing that does this in a balanced manner without having counter affects. be nice though
    Last edited: Jun 1, 2014
  6. pone

    pone

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    It would be a very interesting question what percentage of ME/CFS patients produce insufficient stomach acid.

    I guess that is an empirical question. If someone knows of a study that profiles that condition in CFS, please provide us a pointer.

    I for one have no problems that I know of producing stomach acid. Maybe that is why bicarbonates work for me.
  7. Sushi

    Sushi Moderator and Senior Member Albuquerque

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    I tested very low on stomach acid with a Heidelberg test. It is known (don't ask for a reference cause don't have one handy!:)) that it is very common for ME patients to have low stomach acid.

    Sushi
  8. maryb

    maryb iherb code TAK122

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    I tested very low on stomach acid too. But a ND I consulted told me under no circumstances should I take HCL. oh dear...
  9. Sushi

    Sushi Moderator and Senior Member Albuquerque

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    My doc told me to take HCL! He had tested the dose I needed on the Heidelberg test.

    Sushi
  10. pone

    pone

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    It's interesting. I wonder if the low stomach acid might just reflect low blood volumes and overall fluid loss and dehydration for many CFS patients?

    One thing I am noticing about this disease is that it seems to be preceded by illness or diet that makes you lose a lot of water weight, and that ends up breaking something. Once you have the full blown CFS, maintaining fluid volumes when you are constantly acidotic is hard.

    At my worst, I was losing five pounds of body weight during sleep, just from breathing. I have that part under control now.

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