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Alegria says: CFS is a "Neurasthenia Spectrum Disorder" (2012)!

Discussion in 'Institute of Medicine (IOM) Government Contract' started by justinreilly, Dec 18, 2013.

  1. justinreilly

    justinreilly Stop the IoM & P2P! Adopt CCC!

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    …And that Neurasthenia is a Psychiatric disorder, specifically a Somatoform disorder.

    The following journal article by Alegria et al. was cited in Jennie Spotila's blogpost today, "Balance = Experts + Information - Bias." This paper on Neurasthenia, below, contains this important quote:

    "Likewise, further research is needed to examine the concordance of neurasthenia spectrum disorders (e.g., ICD-10 neurasthenia, CFS, CCMD-2 and CCMD-3 [these last two are the two Chinese Criteria] for neurasthenia) across non-clinical, population-based samples across cultural contexts [cf. 21, 23]." [Emphasis added]

    "Prevalence of Neurasthenia, Comorbidity, and Association with Impairment Among a Nationally Representative Sample of US Adults" (2012)

    http://forums.phoenixrising.me/inde...impairment-among-a-nationally-represen.27105/

    For this proposition, the authors cite the Pune, India study of neurasthenia spectrum disorders. I don't have access to the full article, but the abstract is damning enough:

    "Clinically significant fatigue or weakness is a common but understudied clinical problem in India...Alternative criteria sets used in different clinical contexts suggest a range of conditions constituting neurasthenia spectrum disorders (NSDs)...CFS, ICD-10 neurasthenia, DSM-IV draft criteria for neurasthenia, and CCMD-2 [ie Chinese Criteria] neurasthenia."

    This study was an attempt to see if the four "neurasthenia categories" mentioned, including CFS, were able to define idiopathic chronic fatigue well!

    Paralikar V, Sarmukaddam S, Agashe M, Weiss MG (2007) Diagnostic concordance of neurasthenia spectrum disorders in Pune, India. Soc Psychiatry Psychiatr Epidemiol 42:561–572

    http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s00127-007-0196-x#page-1


    I do not have access to the other study cited:
    Starcevic V, Kelin K, Munjiza M (1996) Characteristics of neurasthenia: examination and cross-cultural applicability of ICD-10 diagnostic criteria for research. Eur J Psychiatry 11:289– 297

    Alegria repeatedly characterizes Neurasthenia as a Psychiatric disorder. In the final line of her Neurasthenia paper, Alegria calls Neurasthenia a Somatoform disorder:
    "Significantly, our study is timely given the attention being paid to the classification of somatoform disorders and comorbidity, as well as on the role of culture and social factors on the epidemiology of such disorders."
     
    Last edited: Dec 18, 2013
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  2. barbican1

    barbican1

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    CFS is characterised by exhaustion - weakness is a separate condition, and in India there are millions of people on a poor diet
     
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  3. SilverbladeTE

    SilverbladeTE Senior Member

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    And neurasthenia has ALWAYS been a load of bullshit dreamed up by bigoted, misogynistic arseholes.

    Like I said, muy mum had serious spinal injury, then X ray dye that was known to be toxic but covered up, ended up causing scarring on spinal cord, incredibly painful;
    Psychiatrist told her it was "neurasthenia"
    neurasthenia doesn't show up on xrays!


    Most psychiatrists are as much use as genital warts in a knocking shop! evil-smiley.gif
     
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  4. alex3619

    alex3619 Senior Member

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    Historically my understanding is that neurasthenia was male hysteria. Men couldn't have hysteria, that was a worman's disease. It was also thought to be from not enough sex. Since then it fell out of favour, and then resurfaced in recent decades with new twists. Along the way men were allowed to be hysterical, and women to have neurasthenia.

    Like probably all these types of disease categories, neurasthenia is a made-up disease category. There may or may not be any such thing, but they have never been able to show any real evidence for it.

    As I said in my new blog:

    Its very hard to see that anyone can claim to be into evidence based medicine and believe in psychosomatic illnesses. "Evidence based psychosomatic illness" is an oxymoron.
     
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  5. biophile

    biophile Places I'd rather be.

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    I think at one stage Freud believed neurasthenia was caused by too much masturbation and was curable with cocaine.

    If only that was true!
     
    Last edited: Dec 18, 2013
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  6. minkeygirl

    minkeygirl Narcissism = lack of self awareness

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    Maybe CBT would help you? LOL
     
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  7. SilverbladeTE

    SilverbladeTE Senior Member

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    Snorting coke and jacking off...damn that would explain the lunatics in Parliament! :p
     
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  8. Ren

    Ren Primum Non Nocere

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    It's unethical that we've been denied access to the contract, and it's unethical that we don't have access to proposed-panel members' writings.

    Thank you for this find, Justin!

    Does anyone know who nominated Alegria? Or is such info "top-secret" as well?
     
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  9. Nielk

    Nielk

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    Jennie Spotila of ocupyCFS discusses Dr. Alegria at length here:

     
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  10. barbican1

    barbican1

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    doctors usually refer CFS/FMS patients to psychiatrists because they are clueless -- they are required to take action, as the patient is clearly ill and VOILA, enter the psychiatrist! problem offloaded!
     
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  11. Iquitos

    Iquitos Senior Member

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    Maybe that's why he became addicted to cocaine...
     
  12. Ecoclimber

    Ecoclimber Senior Member

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    And the esteem psychriatrists and clinical psychologists treat patients diagnose with a mental health condition at a Nevada State run Mental Health Hospital with "Greyhound Therapy" . Didn't know that 'Greyhoud Therapy was a therapuetic technique in the the DSM-5 manual but then practioners have a habit of making things up on the go.

    http://www.thedailybeast.com/articl...yhound-therapy-for-mentally-ill-patients.html

    LAS VEGAS (AP) — The San Francisco city attorney filed a lawsuit on Tuesday against the state of Nevada, claiming it has wrongfully and intentionally bused psychiatric patients to the city and declined to pay the costs connected with their care. City Attorney Dennis Herrera filed the case in San Francisco Superior Court a day after a deadline he had set for Nevada to strike an agreement with the city.

    Named as defendants were the state and several Nevada agencies, the Rawson-Neal Psychiatric Hospital in Las Vegas, and state health chief Mike Willden.

    http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/09/10/san-francisco-patient-dumping/2795909/

    http://www.theguardian.com/society/2013/may/12/psychiatrists-under-fire-mental-health

    Which is why including social behaviorists, psychiatrists etc. on a panel to diagnose medical illnesses is an inherent danger....an alchemy of science with non-science.

    Just remember that according to the American Psychiatric Association, until 1974 homosexuality was a mental illness DSM-2 but was instantly cured by a vote.
    http://www.behaviorismandmentalheal...osexuality-the-mental-illness-that-went-away/

    "An interesting aspect of this is that homosexuality actually does meet the APA’s present criterion for a mental illness! The criterion is: “… a clinically significant behavioral or psychological syndrome or pattern that occurs in an individual and that is associated with present distress…or disability…or with a significantly increased risk of suffering death, pain, disability or an important loss of freedom.” (DSM-IV-TR, p xxxi) "

    Of couse the 'gay disease' was instantly cured by a vote of the APA.

    With the DSM-5 manual, psychiatry encroaches more into the field of medicine with 'fads' and unproven andunscientific theories and treatments. This is why any individual in the field of behaviorial science who has shown a current or past prejudice toward a scientific medical explanation of unexplained symptoms should be excluded from the IOM panel.

    It is not mental illness because scientific technology does not have the capability to detect nor assess unexplained symptoms within the human body.

    Recently, scientists have discovered a second code hiding within DNA. This second code contains information that changes how scientists read the instructions contained in DNA and interpret mutations to make sense of health and disease. http://www.washington.edu/news/2013/12/12/scientists-discover-double-meaning-in-genetic-code/.

    We are not living in the dark ages of 1918 with Sigmund Freud, where the framwork of psychiatry and behavioral science is built on the models of outdated and unscientific theories from a drug-addled psychologist whose use of cocaine as his drug of choice — which he rationalized as a therapeutic anti-depressant.

    We live in age where scientific research, exploration and technology are opening the doors for a medical explanation for many of the unexplained symptoms within patients.
     
    Last edited: Dec 18, 2013
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  13. Mark

    Mark Acting CEO

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    :mad:

    The panel has to aim for 100% consensus on case definition. That is surely impossible with Alegria who believes ME/CFS is not a physical disease. That fact alone seems to guarantee that a 'majority' verdict, or one with dissenting voices noted, is inevitable - which will weaken the impact of the report considerably.

    In order to get her replaced, perhaps an alternative is needed who can tick whatever boxes she is ticking for the panel. Some of those boxes may include diversity though, which might make it tricky...perhaps another psych or from similar discipline but with more of an open mind? Really the case for Jason and Peterson is incredibly strong - what kind of panel decides on a question like this and does not include those two? :eek:
     
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  14. alex3619

    alex3619 Senior Member

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    Leonard Jason has a similar profile, and would be much preferred by the patient community, though I do not know if he is available.
     
  15. Izola

    Izola Senior Member

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    Uh er-- What's a knocking shop or dare I ask?
     
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  16. Sean

    Sean Senior Member

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    A knocking shop is how the English avoid saying whorehouse.
     
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  17. SilverbladeTE

    SilverbladeTE Senior Member

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    *cough* Scottish! :p

    We invented and beta tested the "English" language before rejecting it and giving it to the Sassenachs as lacking "sufficient verbal prose" for our more flavoursome needs ;)
     
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  18. justinreilly

    justinreilly Stop the IoM & P2P! Adopt CCC!

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    This was Jennie's response to this post:

    "We didn’t miss those quotes. We discuss them in this post. And the group was mixed in their interpretation of whether Alegria equates CFS and neurasthenia, as we explain in the post."
     
  19. justinreilly

    justinreilly Stop the IoM & P2P! Adopt CCC!

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    My response:

    Jennie,
    Pls look carefully at your section on Dr. Alegria; you do NOT discuss the quote I said you missed: “Likewise, further research is needed to examine the concordance of neurasthenia spectrum disorders (e.g., ICD-10 neurasthenia, CFS, CCMD-2 and CCMD-3 [these last two are the two Chinese Criteria] for neurasthenia) across non-clinical, population-based samples across cultural contexts [cf. 21, 23].”

    (1) It was not quoted,
    (2) It was not discussed or considered

    If it had been discussed your group would not be “mixed in their interpretation of whether Alegria equates CFS and neurasthenia, as we explain in the post.”

    If the group considered her quote that CFS is a “Neurasthenia Spectrum Disorder” along with the cite to support, which was a study to determine if any of four “Neurasthenia Categories” including CFS could define Idiopathic Chronic Fatigue in India, there would be no doubt in your minds that Alegria does equate CFS and Neurasthenia.
     
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  20. justinreilly

    justinreilly Stop the IoM & P2P! Adopt CCC!

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    Her more recent "Feedback to IoM":

    "Dr. Margarita Alegria co-authored a paper on the prevalence and comorbidity of neurasthenia. While this paper did not directly examine the potential overlap between ME/CFS and neurasthenia, I am troubled by the statements on page 1742 that CFS is “a controversial illness which has been argued to be a variant of neurasthenia,” and that individuals “may present with symptoms of neurasthenia, but may otherwise be misdiagnosed as having depression, anxiety, or CFS.” If Dr. Alegria believes that ME/CFS is actually a psychological condition such as neurasthenia, then her presence on the panel is unacceptable. I urge IOM to establish whether Dr. Alegria has such a bias, and remove her from the panel if she does."

    http://www.occupycfs.com/2013/12/19/my-feedback-to-the-institute-of-medicine/#comment-51957
     
    Last edited: Dec 20, 2013
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