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Alan Dove misunderstands ME/CFS patients

Discussion in 'Action Alerts and Advocacy' started by WillowJ, Jun 2, 2011.

  1. WillowJ

    WillowJ Senior Member

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    Alan Dove says he thinks patients are "true believers" in XMRV because of seeking ridicule from outsiders in order to be a martyr in the eyes of other believers. I thought it took a Sharpe to make this stuff up. Please correct him as kindly as you can.

    url removed

    My comments (awaiting moderation)

     
  2. Angela Kennedy

    Angela Kennedy *****

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    In other news - the tide came in...

    And there's 'ERV' with her particular brand of ad hominem, misinformation and condescension against this patient community we've all come to know so well. That young woman's got some strange personal issues about patients and another woman scientist that dwarfs any knowledge of retrovirology she claims to have.

    But good job with the comment WillowJ.
     
  3. Enid

    Enid Senior Member

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    What a weird interpretation of the Easter event anyway. Can't see it related in any form to viruses. Confusion of levels = sloppy thinking.
     
  4. Snow Leopard

    Snow Leopard Senior Member

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    I think it would be a good idea not to flood this blog with comments though and leave the responding up to WillowJ.
    Or ERV for that matter - she does it for attention, I think we should ignore her from now on so she loses interest.
     
  5. In Vitro Infidelium

    In Vitro Infidelium Guest

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    You are accepting a 'hat' that Dove isn't offering you to 'wear'. The article happens to include in its examples of on-line cultism, a belief about CFS causation, but Dove hasn't said anything generic about M.E/CFS affected people. What he has very succinctly identified is the pervasive dangers of succumbing to the group think of, in his suggested terminology, Forum Faiths, or E-tribes, or Chatroom Counterfactuals. Of course I'm bound to support Dove given a very strong incentive to confirmation bias.

    IVI
     
  6. Angela Kennedy

    Angela Kennedy *****

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    So Dove is writing in non-sequiturs? Jumping from one subject to another without a link? That's not the case. He is rhetorically associating the ME/CFS community with his own speculative, opinion based assertions about 'cultism' and 'groupthink'. It's a well-known rhetorical device.
     
  7. Enid

    Enid Senior Member

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    And the suggestion of "cultism" and "groupthink" in his sense is utterly offensive in the ME/CFS world - couldn't be wider off the mark.
     
  8. Boule de feu

    Boule de feu Senior Member

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    My impression is:
    "I will not waste my time on this. It is not worth it."
    IMO, it's a way to get more traffic on his blog and ERV is contributing to that.
    Bravo WilllowJ for your answer. It is a very good one.
     
  9. Navid

    Navid Senior Member

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    Bdf:

    Agree!!!! must mean i'm part of your cult!!! uh-oh

    what i don't understand is why ppl like dove and ivi who obviously disdain me/cfs patients continue to write, talk, think about us. if you think we're crazy, great move on....we don't need you. we need compassionate, caring, smart, curious people who will help us find a way to recover from this life robbing disease.


    please don't feed the animals.
     
  10. Angela Kennedy

    Angela Kennedy *****

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    Willow brought this to people's attention because this community does need to know how they are being (mis)represented, and where possible, such misrepresentation can be countered.
     
  11. Wayne

    Wayne Senior Member

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    Hi Willow, really good job on your reply. I came across the following snippet in one of Alan Dove's replies.

    Church of St. Judy?????? Arrogance reigns supreme with this guy. Ironically, he comes across as the kind of person he's trying to denigrate. Could be some kind of cosmic dynamic where he sees himself in others, I don't know. Anyway, he sounds like sort of a nut case to me; won't be giving him another thought.
     
  12. WillowJ

    WillowJ Senior Member

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    I agree that it's not a good idea to drive up web traffic, and I've removed the link in the OP for search engine ranking purposes.

    Alan is obviously not engaging with new ideas or information, so if anyone else wants to respond I would advise posting here (it shouldn't be too difficult for anyone to find this page if interested in his topic).

    It's too bad there isn't a process whereby people with such a profound disrespect for patients are taken out of their current professions and routed into others where empathy is not needed.

    Angela, thank you.

    Thanks also everyone who had kind words for the content of my post.

    The bizzare thing is, ME/CFS patients already have to deal with so much disrespect, it would be either completely insane, or entirely lacking in even a surface understanding of what is going on in our world, to suggest any of us (no matter how small he professes, when corrected, to believe the segment of "inappropriate" believers is) would go out seeking ridicule for any reason.
     
  13. justinreilly

    justinreilly Stop the IoM & P2P! Adopt CCC!

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    Yes, really! Dove is emotionally disabled. I'd pity him if he weren't a jerk. (it would be ironic if HGRVs were the cause of his Asperger's) That's what he's going for- making himself feel better by kicking the most vulnerable.
     
  14. Desdinova

    Desdinova Senior Member

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    Who is Alan Dove? Is he someone of importance or prominence? He seemed a bit erratic in his post jumping and jumbling seemingly unrelated issues together. I still have no idea what part religion had to do with the ME/CFS XMRV issue. Not to mention how he goes off on a tangent about autism and vaccines.
     
  15. Snow Leopard

    Snow Leopard Senior Member

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    Not at all, just some PhD with a blog.
     
  16. floydguy

    floydguy Senior Member

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    With a wife who is a shrink.
     
  17. CBS

    CBS Senior Member

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    Alan Dove is someone who profits from the psych lobby BS about CFS. His wife is psychiatrist specializing in ""Psychosomatic Medicine."

    He has an extremely over inflated view of his understanding of CFS. On TWIV several months ago, he stated that he was a medical journalist who was around during the CDC's $10 million "misappropriation" scandal. Dove stated that there were questions about whether or not the money was ever really "misdirected." He claimed that is was nothing more than an unproven allegation. Bill Reeves didn't even go that far.

    Dove is one step this side of ERV and without Racaniello (or his wife's income) he'd most likely be living on the street.

    On the surface it appears as though he spends his days blogging and tweeting about science but to me his posts seem to be a bit sad as the theme is often more about why people don't appreciate his efforts to save them from themselves (it's a recurring theme). A bit of a messiah complex. I'd suggest that he ask his wife for a good referral but I haven't read (or heard) anything from him to indicate that he has that kind of self awareness.

    Not worth much more forum space than that.
     
  18. WillowJ

    WillowJ Senior Member

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    ERV is just some student, but Racaniello gives AD a platform because why? I'm puzzled. What's his PhD in? Journalism or virology?
     
  19. Navid

    Navid Senior Member

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    It's too bad there isn't a process whereby people with such a profound disrespect for patients are taken out of their current professions and routed into others where empathy is not needed.....willow

    I think he should become a professional mercenary....that's about the best role for him given his non-existent empathy. And why VR gives him a platform is a very good question.....

    i don't like to admit this but i sometimes visualize slapping him across the face....cruel but true.

    thanks willow.
     
  20. voner

    voner Senior Member

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    how does it feel?

    Alan is prone to making flippant statements and has not realized that when you participate in a popular podcast,( this week in virology), and also blog, you have become a public person.

    Allen also has a very thin skin, and he was very offended when in the early days after the WPI's original science publication, he made the statement that he was horrified that anybody would consider antiretrovirals drugs, etc. this prompted a large response on his blog from CFS patients. I think he said to the CFS patients who replied to him on his blog something like "you people are crazy", shut down the reply feature......... and then he disappeared the blog a short time later and started a new one.

    Allen would not be worth discussing, except for he does put out an opinion that it is emotional and opinionated on XMRV and CFS, couched in references published scientific papers. I listen to twiv -- because Vincent Racaniello and the rest of the folks on the show are absolutely wonderful. IMHO, the world would be much better off if we had many more Vincent Racaniello's. They do a good job of educating the public and I like their folksy style. They live in extremely insular world, but they are only podcasting about their insular world -- for the most part.

    what Alan does not express -- and Vincent Racaniello does -- is compassion for very sick people. instead of expressing that it's sad that in an incredibly wealthy country like the United States, there are few medical options, if any, for these very sick and desperate patients.

    A while back on twiv, the discussion wandered around to viruses in the endangered gorilla population around Rwanda (I think that was the subject) and somewhere within the discussion Allen made a flippant statement about eating endangered mountain gorillas..... meant in jest -- but he just doesn't understand how offensive he can be. and then he takes any opportunity to passive aggressively poke back at people that have offended him...

    I think Alan could use quite a little psychological counseling himself.

    as a listener of TWIV, that's my take on it. Alan does contribute viable information to the broadcast.....And then I cringe when he does one of his flippant remarks, and remarks like that always make me think of the Bob Dylan song, "like a Rolling Stone"":

    Once upon a time you dressed so fine
    You threw the bums a dime in your prime, didn't you ?
    People'd call, say, "Beware doll, you're bound to fall"
    You thought they were all kiddin' you
    You used to laugh about
    Everybody that was hangin' out
    Now you don't talk so loud
    Now you don't seem so proud
    About having to be scrounging for your next meal.

    How does it feel
    How does it feel
    To be without a home
    Like a complete unknown
    Like a rolling stone ?
     

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