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Adverse effects on probiotics

Discussion in 'The Gut: De Meirleir & Maes; H2S; Leaky Gut' started by zzz0r, Jul 1, 2014.

  1. zzz0r

    zzz0r Senior Member

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    I have been trying this product lately http://www.iherb.com/Jarrow-Formulas-Jarro-Dophilus-EPS-120-Capsules/7006#p=1&oos=1&disc=0&lc=en-US&w=jarrow probiotics&rc=25&sr=null&ic=1

    As you can see in the ingredients it also contains potato starch. Any way I am experiencing insomnia and bloating with just one capsule for these first days. I wonder is this typical for everyone? Could it be "die off" effect?

    I am also talking at the same time this product in order to counter candida overgrowth and that gives me oily skin which I also assume it is "die off" effect.

    http://www.iherb.com/Jarrow-Formulas-Jarro-Dophilus-EPS-120-Capsules/7006#p=1&oos=1&disc=0&lc=en-US&w=jarrow probiotics&rc=25&sr=null&ic=1
     
  2. Thinktank

    Thinktank Senior Member

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    Do the symptoms you mention only appear with that specific probiotic formula? Have you tried other probiotics before?

    Bloating, diarrhea, constipation etc. during the first weeks is quite normal as gut flora is shifting, it should lessen within 2-3 weeks.
     
  3. zzz0r

    zzz0r Senior Member

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    No I have not tried any other probiotics so far. I have also see people writing about insomnia as well.
     
  4. janet

    janet

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    Wonder if you can help me - I've been taking Optibac Every Day that has absorbic acid in as a filler along with potato starch but I am feeling really weird - on edge, a bit wired, racy heart, headachey - is this the potato start of absorbic acid - I normally take probiotics without any of these additions - I tried this one for 4 days and stopped because of the way I felt (my partner said I was miles away doing the shopping) and then restarted to see but I'm having similar problems - is it a herx reaction or what - anyone shed any light on whether its these two fillers. Do I continue or do I stop - it does feel like my blood pressure may have dropped a bit but normally probiotics don't do this. Do I just chuck these in the bin - can't think it's the probiotic formula - please help anyone.
     
  5. janet

    janet

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    I look forward to any help I can get on this as the way I feel it's not pleasant
     
  6. Bob

    Bob

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    @janet, purely going from my personal experience, if it's not helping then stop it immediately so you don't do long-term damage. Find another product that agrees with you.

    There have been discussions on the forum about Herx reactions, but I've only ever become worse after suspected Herx reactions. I've never experienced improvements after them. I now avoid them at all costs. And I'm not personally convinced that Herx reactions are a real or helpful phenomena.

    Just my perspective.
     
    Last edited: Jan 23, 2015
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  7. janet

    janet

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    Thanks for that Bob - I'm with you on this when you say Herx reactions and coming through them - I've never yet been able to ride the storm out on one and quit whatever was causing it -not sure what it is that's doing it - potato starch or absorbic acid but I've felt rotten all day - I won't take any more of the Optibac and I've chucked it out - can't be doing with feeling like this - I've taken probiotics for a while now and never had a reaction like this or as bad - I can't see how a herx reaction can be good for you neither.
     
    Bob likes this.
  8. Crux

    Crux Senior Member

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    I'm also dubious about whether a reaction is die-off or not.
    I recently took antibiotics, though, and did experience some of the symptoms described as die-off.

    I didn't experience a racing heart, though, and that side-effect is not good.

    People have had both good and bad reactions to probiotics and potato starch. I believe a negative reaction to either could mean that there is some overgrowth that may need to be addressed first.

    I also suspect that ascorbic acid could cause problems if a person is already producing too much acid from overgrowth.
     
  9. janet

    janet

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    Well never had this reaction with a probiotic that didn't have added fillers like PS and AA. This is the first time I have used a one with these in as I was assured it was a minimal amount and wouldn't effect me - however something has and I am convinced it's the potato starch and absorbic acid. I had taken it four four days and it was on the second day I was feeling "not my usual self" didn't seem to have the bounce I get with other probiotics nor did I feel I wanted to do anything - my Wednesday I was feeling pretty wired, on edge, racy heart and I went shopping with partner who said to me "you were miles away whilst shopping" so didn't take any that night and took half of the one I normally used - Thursday I felt totally different so thought Thursday evening I'd try the Optibac one again and yesterday felt dreadful - didn't take it -in fact I binned it and won't buy it ever again - today I feel back to myself. So it has to be for me the added fillers as the probiotics in Optibac and what I normally take are pretty much the same. Can anyone recommend a probiotic that doesn't have a prebiotic in and that isn't high in billions of bacteria - around 10 is more than enough for me. Can't believe the problems that this cause me and on looking on the internet it did say PS especially can lower blood pressure which and cause other issues.
     
  10. janet

    janet

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    I don't think I have to much overgrowth if I'm honest now because I've taken probiotics for a while now and also because of my diet - eat clean as much as possible and I do avoid normally stuff with sucrose, maltodextrin, saccharin etc. etc. added in - this was a first for me. I take probiotics for bloating and generally for that feel good factor - I stopped for a week and didn't have the usual get up and go I get when I take them they improve my mood also
     
  11. Thinktank

    Thinktank Senior Member

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    @janet, can you list the strains from your probiotic formula?
    Probiotics produce all sorts of extra stuff. L. Acidophilus produces D-lactate, some bifidobacteria produce histamine, etc. If you are sensitive to one of those organic compounds then you will endure side effects.

    In my case strains that produce histamine or excessive D-lactate will cause problems.
    VSL #3 and homemade 24hour fermented yogurt at first nearly healed my intestines, now i get sick after 1 dose.
     
    L'engle and Crux like this.
  12. janet

    janet

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    Nutritional Information this is Optibac every day
    Filler: potato starch; Live cultures: (Lactobacillus rhamnosus Rosell-11, Lactobacillus acidophilus Rosell-52, Bifidobacterium longum Rosell-175, Lactococcus lactis Rosell-1058, Bifidobacterium breve Rosell-70, Bifidobacterium bifidum Rosell-71); Fructooligosaccharides (FOS 44mg); vegetarian capsule: hydroxypropyl methylcellulose; anti-caking agent: magnesium stearate; antioxidant: ascorbic acid
    Daily dose (2 capsules) guarantees 5 billion micro-organisms + 88mg FOS fibres.

    However when I tried Bio Kult which I found very good and did help my bloating tum but my face seems to bloat and puff when I take this and I also get bad headaches so not sure which bacteria in this would effect me, the ingredients in that were:-

    Bacillus subtilis PXN 21
    Bifidobacterium bifidum PXN 23
    Bifidobacterium breve PXN 25
    Bifidobacterium infantis PXN 27
    Bifidobacterium longum PXN 30
    Lactobacillus acidophilus PXN 35
    Lactobacillus delbrueckii ssp. bulgaricus PXN 39
    Lactobacillus casei PXN 37
    Lactobacillus plantarum PXN 47
    Lactobacillus rhamnosus PXN 54
    Lactobacillus helveticus PXN 45
    Lactobacillus salivarius PXN 57
    Lactococcus lactis ssp. lactis PXN 63
    Streptococcus thermophilus PXN 66

    I have thought about trying Healthspan Pro-5 Probiotic - that only has 5 billiion bacteria and 3mg of prebiotic but the one that I amm very interested in and would appreciate thoughts on is Swansons Lactobacillus Gasseri -a one straing probiotic which is supposed to be a "new" probiotic for bloating and weight gain around the tummy - lactic acid is mentioned on the blurb to this one so I'd really appreciate your opinion whether this is a good one to take or not. I do find prebiotics bloat me that is why I wanted one without but 3mg as opposed to Optibac 88mg may be a better one for me. Healthspan do a probiotic that has no prebiotics in but is 20 billion bacteria - wondered also about that!

    I am definitely avoiding any probiotic now that has "added" fillers in like maltodextrin, sweeteners (which if I'm honest I have done) but Optibac said the amount of PS and AA was so minimal it wouldn't have any effect.

    Would it be PS or AA that would cause me the biggest problems?

    Thanks for your help and advice it is greatly appreciated as probiotics are a mine field.
     
  13. Bob

    Bob

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    I've had an exceptionally bad experience taking that particular probiotic.
    I'm pretty sure that it caused me a major-major-major relapse, and I would avoid it at all costs.
    Lactobacillus salivarius seems to works in a similar way to antibiotics, in that it depletes the gut microbiota.
    It is sometimes promoted as an anti-diarrhoea probiotic (i.e. helpful to take travelling) because it kills off other gut bacteria.
    My stools completely changed in consistency while I was taking it, and then I experienced a nasty change in my health status.
     
  14. janet

    janet

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    Thanks for that Bob - wonder if that was why I had problems with Biokult - the only other thing with this probiotic was it did contain a little dairy and it said a little soy - maybe it was that but my face always looked puffed out like a hamsters cheeks. What about the other probiotic Lactobacillus Gasseri or the Pro-5 from Healthspan - whats your thoughts on those - can you recommend one that is good and especially good for constipation and bloating?
     
    Bob likes this.
  15. Bob

    Bob

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    Hi Janet, I'm not aware of any probiotics that are good for constipation or bloating, but I'm not an expert with probiotics. I only use them occasionally. For constipation I always find psyllium husks very useful without any side-effects. There are discussion threads on the forum in relation to constipation. People find various things helpful.
     
  16. janet

    janet

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    Thanks Bob I tend to use them for bloating - some help better than others but also I do tend to feel better on them - apart from this Optibac one - I'll wait till things settle down and give them a try - for now the Pro-5 looks a good one because it is a fairly low dose, no added fillers and only 3mg of prebiotic. I will stick to my beliefs in future and not take a probiotic with added stuff in which is what I've always done in the past and not believe what the so called experts tell me - no doubt they are just trying to make another sale - I will listen to my own instincts from now on and what I know will not agress - thanks - anyone on here an expert with probiotics???
     
    Bob likes this.
  17. Valentijn

    Valentijn Activity Level: 3

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    Probiotics aren't killing bacteria, especially not the ones which can cause a Herxheimer reaction. Some people may like to form fantastical theories about it, but it's simply not true.

    For it to be a Herxheimer reaction you should be getting VERY specific symptoms, such as low blood pressure AND fevers. It should also be happening in result to actively killing off a decent amount of bacteria which produce endotoxins. Syphilis and Lyme produce those endotoxins, but it's exceeding unlikely that they'd somehow be getting killed off in your gut by probiotics, or that such die off in the gut would even be possible of creating a Herxheimer reaction.

    You aren't "herxing", you're having an adverse reaction of some sort.
     
  18. janet

    janet

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    I think it was a reaction to either potato starch or absorbic acid but not sure which would do that. What is a proper herx reaction like
     
  19. janet

    janet

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    I've just ordered one and made the mistake of not seeing it had Vit D3 added as an extra could kick myself - do you think I would get any similar reactns to the previous one - what will Vit D3 do in a probiotic in terms of benefits, what will it do for me - so annoyed with myself though as I really didn't see it as an added extra
     

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