The 12th Invest in ME Conference, Part 1
OverTheHills presents the first article in a series of three about the recent 12th Invest In ME international Conference (IIMEC12) in London.
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Adrenals - index to 4th finger ratio, arm length to height

Discussion in 'General ME/CFS Discussion' started by Mary, Feb 5, 2015.

  1. Mary

    Mary Senior Member

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    After reading another post about adrenal issues, I just remembered that when I first saw my CFS doctor in the mid-1990s, he pointed out that my ring finger is noticeably shorter than my index finger, and my arm span is about an inch longer than my height. He said both these things indicated adrenal problems before I reached age 12. I was trying just now to find some information on this and found this article:

    http://www.drkaslow.com/html/adrenal_insufficiency.html

    The article talks about these things, as well as several other indicators of adrenal insufficiency:

    "Body Conformation is of the thin muscle-type (this is called asthenic habitus).
    The typical person is also tall with an angular appearance but a shorter person may have what we call "signs of tallness" - a moderately long neck, an index finger longer than the 4th (ring) finger, and a 2nd toe longer than the big toe. There are long arms and legs, and the arm span is greater than the height."

    And also I'm tall, blue-eyed and blonde (well, sort of blonde, more grey-blonde now :))

    Anyways, I thought this information might be useful to others with adrenal problems. It could indicate that maybe some of our problems originated in early childhood development.
     
  2. minkeygirl

    minkeygirl But I Look So Good.

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    A side comment about Kaslow. I saw him when I first got sick but he fired me because I wouldn't buy my supplements from him.
     
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  3. Mary

    Mary Senior Member

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    Sorry to hear that. I'm curious - prior to firing you as a patient, was he able to help you at all or shed any light on what was going on?
     
  4. Beyond

    Beyond Juice Me Up, Scotty!!!

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    Thats interesting. I have all of these physical signs and adrenal fatigue and used to be one of the tallest in my younger years. I wonder if this means I was meant to be taller. Well, better an average height that is healthy that a tall man who cannot live, so lets work for regaining health.
     
  5. Mary

    Mary Senior Member

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    I was always the second tallest in my class - I'm 5'9" but according to the arm span test, I should have been 5'10". The article does also mention blue eyes, blonde hair as being indicative. I have no idea how that would be a factor. But it just makes me wonder if I (and probably many of us) was predisposed to adrenal problems and maybe hence CFS from a very early age, perhaps birth.

    Yes, I totally agree, let's work for regaining health!
     
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  6. Beyond

    Beyond Juice Me Up, Scotty!!!

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    Oh totally Mary, genetic predisposition is on the menu, if you want to go bonkers start playing with your 23andme and visit the threads that span regarding the possible genes involved, but that is unlikely to yield practical solutions short term IME. I am more interested in healing my hormonal problems/circadian rhytm dysfunction aka adrenal fatigue (which is not the only thing I deal with) than to know how/why they happened, and genetics is a VAST area that is just beginning to be explored so it is even more obscure, although theorically one day it will the most important area in medicine. Things like Yasko makes little sense for me bearing in mind the number of genes that exist and the insufficient research on the possibly significant, but if it helps hey.
     
  7. Mary

    Mary Senior Member

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    I guess I had never really considered the possibility that I might have been genetically predisposed to my adrenal problems, CFS, etc. I actually have ordered the 23andme testing, though I'm sure I have the MTHFR defect, if nothing else. I have 9 siblings and am the only one with this type of health problem.

    Re your adrenal fatigue/circadian rhythm dysfunction - have you ever tried adrenal glandulars? They helped me a lot. In the mid-1990's I was weak as a kitten, doctors didn't have a clue, I stumbled across a chiropractor who does muscle testing who told me my adrenals were wiped out and gave me Drenatrophin PMG by Standard Process. I had to take about 3 times the regular dose because I was so weak but within a couple of days my energy started returning. This was before full-blown CFS with PEM hit. I was also deficient in pantothenic acid and learned about how it is crucial for adrenal health.

    Also, for high cortisol at night (and hence severe insomnia) I was given Seriphos (phosphorylated serine) which was invaluable in helping to normalize my cortisol levels. I found (and later read) that it was best to take it in the morning on an empty stomach due to circadian rhythms. When I took it at night it gave me insomnia.

    I am hoping with the 23andme testing to get some clues re my detox capabilities as detoxing seems to be my latest Achilles heel, now that my adrenals are pretty well sorted out.

    Well, we are all stumbling along together sorting out pieces of the puzzle - hopefully it will all be put together one day!
     
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  8. Beyond

    Beyond Juice Me Up, Scotty!!!

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    That Drenatrophin product looks legit AND cheap! Will try it when I can, thank you. Yeah I havent tried Seriphos, could have but had bad luck and lost the package, then stopped bothering. Besides, tests show I have low cortisol always, including the night.

    I have taken Panthetine (B5) and it does help with energy and libido (adrenal related things, among others). I want to start taking it again as it was moderately useful.
     
  9. melamine

    melamine Senior Member

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    This caught my eye because I used to be one of the tallest in my class but stopped growing in my mid-teens while classmates continued acquiring height. My sx hormones seemed to be functioning normally, doing what they should, when they should, but apparently there was indication of some kind of endocrine disorder. For some reason unknown to me, maybe something minor, my doctor around that time thought I should see an endocrinologist. I did not learn about this until recently - she told my mother instead of me, and my mom "didn't think it was important" so I never saw one. Thanks, mom. :rolleyes:

    My ring finger is shorter than index, my second toe is shorter than big toe. Adrenal function tested uniformly low by 12 hr saliva test a few years ago and normal twice on ACTH stim. test.
     
  10. MeSci

    MeSci ME/CFS since 1995; activity level 6?

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    I'm hesitant to attach much credence to articles which don't provide references for their material. How can we know whether the info is based on science or just opinion?

    I did find a 2009 paper about finger length ratios which may be of interest.
     
    Last edited: Feb 7, 2015
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  11. Mary

    Mary Senior Member

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    @MeSci - Like you, I do prefer to have references for material and I know the article I linked has none. It caught my eye because it correlated with what my doctor told me almost 20 years ago, but I agree it would be better to have scientific backup for any claims. I do keep in mind, however, that there is very little research done on nutritional issues or anything a little out of the ordinary, especially when there's no drug money involved. I read blurbs about various vitamins, supplements etc. and they always state that certain claims are made about efficacy but that there's no research to back it up, implying that the claims are worthless. However, they neglect to state that there won't be research into those things because there's no money involved. Which is why so many of us are human guinea pigs, trying thing after thing.

    My doctor is pretty well informed, and I just may ask him where he learned about the index/ring finger issue and arm span/height as they relate to the adrenals.
     
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  12. MeSci

    MeSci ME/CFS since 1995; activity level 6?

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    ACTH test doesn't pick up the abnormalities in ME, or at least in many (most?) cases. The reason is likely to be that we produce too little of our own ACTH, at least some of the time. When we are given exogenous ACTH, we respond normally and produce cortisol. But the rest of the time we cannot produce cortisol normally due to too little ACTH at certain times. There has been a number of threads on abnormal cortisol secretion and related issues.
     
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  13. liverock

    liverock Senior Member

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    Last edited: Feb 7, 2015
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  14. melamine

    melamine Senior Member

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    That's me.
    I never put any stock in the ACTH stim test for myself for that reason. With ME we're generally dealing with actual function rather than ability to function.
     

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