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Adrenal Issues and treatment problems

Discussion in 'Adrenal Dysfunction' started by Misfit Toy, Feb 14, 2011.

  1. caledonia

    caledonia

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    While I had detox effects right away, I have heard of there being a lag time of several weeks where the protocol got too strong to tolerate at the suggested starting dose. I would not tinker with it for awhile yet. You could ask Rich the same question.
  2. heapsreal

    heapsreal iherb 10% discount code OPA989,

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    I have been using licorice now for a few days, i dont think its helping much. Im getting a deep seated headache that is similar to when i used pregnenolone and sleep has gone abit funny. I dont think i react very well to things that increase cortisol. But i dont seem to have any negative problems with adaptogen herbs like ginseng and withania, maybe they have a more balanced effect on all adrenal hormones not just cortisol, but im just guessing at that. Vitamin b5 seems to have been the most positive for me.

    So im going to drop the licorice root and see if things change. Withania seems good for that tired wired feeling and for sleep.

    cheers!!!
  3. CBS64

    CBS64

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    Opposite Reaction to Adrenal supplements

    I have the same issue with certain supplements that are supposed to support adrenal function, like licorice and cortisol. Cortef (corticosteroid Rx to support adrenals) also makes my adrenals crash. According to James Wilson, author of the book Adrenal Fatigue, there is a small percentage of people (15%, I think) who have the opposite reaction to these supplements.

    I am able to take an adrenal glandular (not a multi-glandular). American Biologics is the brand. It does help some, but I am looking for other supplements to support adrenal function and am interested in any ideas others might have. I've tried pantothenic acid, but it sends me up and down. Same for some of the other adaptogens like Siberian Ginseng and ashwaganda. I would love to find an alcohol-free homeopathic adrenal support formula (without licorice or cortisol in it).


  4. caledonia

    caledonia

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  5. Sallysblooms

    Sallysblooms P.O.T.S. now SO MUCH BETTER!

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    AdreCor is good too. I take it twice a day.
  6. caledonia

    caledonia

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    I have already received my adrenal test kit from Clymer. Now I just have to figure out a good day to do the test.

    Of course, since my sleep is almost reversed again, so it's going to involve waking up in the middle of "my" night for the 7am sample. On top of that my main doc wants me to do another morning cortisol blood test the following day, so that adds an additional day of sleep deprivation.

    I have two social/work-like things going on this week, so I may wait until next week when the PEM clears out. Been feeling kind of inexplicably weak lately which doesn't help.
  7. heapsreal

    heapsreal iherb 10% discount code OPA989,

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    Im feeling better since dropping the licorice, i think anything that elevated cortisol for me makes me feel worse. For me trying to counteract cortisol seems to have helped, dhea and phosphatidylserine and withania.

    cheers!!!
  8. ukxmrv

    ukxmrv Senior Member

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    Caledonia, I did two saliva tests with years apart (and one blood) cortisol test. During one test I was working part time and having to force myself awake to get there in the mornings. For the other I was asleep until 11am most days and had to wake for the test.

    Both had similar results.
  9. ukme

    ukme Senior Member

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    Hi I wonder if anyone can help me.

    My 15 year old daughter has had something of a crash after overdoing things and we are into week 4 of this problem. She is just sooooo hard to revive in the mornings, she doesn't really awake properly til around 11am. I used to be able to get her up at 9am. Once she is up and about she is generally back to her 'normal' self but alot more lethargic all round.

    I am absolutely convinced that her adrenals are shot. She has done various saliva tests over the years and the last one in Feb 2011 was pretty much bumping along the bottom of the scale (only night sample was in the range) however she was doing reasonably ok at the time so I wasn't too concerned.

    I give her supplements called Nutri Adrenal Extra, and she has been taking them for a couple of years. They contain bovine adrenal and pituitary concentrates (New Zealand). She takes a variety of other supplements, is following RVK's methylation protocol and also takes VSL#3. As I say she was doing pretty well up until this crash.

    I am beginning to think the adrenal supplements are not working. Even though I have recently upped the dose there is no improvement in her fatigue.

    I am asking you if you are taking any adrenal supplements that work for you (or any supplements in general)? I have also looked at Dr James Wilson's website and wondered if anyone has followed and benefitted from his adrenal protocol. Also if you are in the UK and have seen anyone who has helped you with this issue, please could you pm me.

    Thanks for listening x
  10. jeffrez

    jeffrez Senior Member

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    ukme I was out of bed from a 6 week crash with no improvement after a day or two on baschetti licorice extract, 2-4 grams a day. Even after a few months, if I go off the licorice I will start going down again with 3-4 days. Probably not as much b/c there has been some healing, but w/out the licorice I would be in bad shape.

    Licorice is also antiviral and has a lot of other benefits, but you just have to watch blood pressure. Usually not an issue for most, but at too high a dose for the person BP can sometimes get elevated. When that happens, just reduce/eliminate the dose for a few days, and it'll go back down into the normal range again (if licorice is what was causing it). Again, most people generally don't have this issue. For me it cropped up when I added salt to my diet, and then cutting out the salt reverted the BP back to normal.

    Regular licorice (licorice root, licorice powder, etc.) won't really work the same way for the fatigue. It has a lot of other components that apparently can cause some people to feel worse. I can't even take half a tsp. of regular licorice powder or a cup of licorice root tea without feeling kind of ill. It has to be the licorice extract powder (used to be called Baschetti licorice) to really get full benefit in CFS. Right now the only place I know of that sells it is the Clymer people

    Licorice extract should be near the top of the list of things to try for everyone who has adrenal issues, imho. It can really make a big immediate difference and help support your adrenals while you work on getting other things straightened out - mineral balances, nutritional deficiencies, gut issues, methylation, etc. Usually best to have an ASI before, but you can just go on how you feel and BP, too. GL
  11. heapsreal

    heapsreal iherb 10% discount code OPA989,

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    Alot of things i have tried for adrenals seem to cause deep type of dull headache or brain fog after using them for awhile, or maybe they have kick started my adrenals. I had this problem with pregnenolone, then the licorice and now for the last week or so have had the same type of headache/brain fog as well as more episodes of the sweats. So today i stopped everything else i have been using for adrenal fatigue which is high dose vit b5, dhea, siberian and korean ginseng, which i have been taking for over 6 months i think. Today the headaches/brain fog stopped and this afternoon had a nanny nap for 3 hours which is very unusual for me, 3 hours sleep of any kind is strange unless medicated, and the sleep was nice deep type of sleep too and have woken and feeling quite well. I will see how i go tomorrow and hope i sleep tonight after my nap today. Although we call it adrenal fatigue etc i think the problem is from the hypothalamus which regulates adrenal hormone secretions and i think these headache/brain fog episodes are from the hypothalamus being over stimulated. The brain fog is different to viral type brain fog though, hard to explain but seem similar to the episodes i had with preg and licorice, so i think this is a sign to stop, but may start again if the deep fatigue hits again.

    I think alot of us are in touch with our symptoms and are hard to explain to others. The brain fog episodes i have been having lately a different to others i have had in the past, also i think we experience different type of fatigue which are also hard to describe. Its really hard to know or measure but i feel i can tell the difference between that viral type fatigue and adrenal fatigue(which i have seen in blood tests of dhea/cortisol) and a type of fatigue i seem to get from adrenals when they over respond which seem to cause these deep headaches and brain fog. Am i imagining things or do others experience different type of symptoms at different times which seem similar but also different that u can distinguish between? Anyway i think its important to stop some treatments to better read these symptoms and restart or revisit treatments used in the past that might be effective once again.

    Maybe Im just starting to go through a good period, but feel like im having some good clarity at the moment, but im not going to hold my breath, lol.
  12. maryb

    maryb iherb code TAK122

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    Make a lot of sense heaps, think all supplement need looking at every now and then especially if you get symptoms like your headaches - I do it every now and again too. Don't take it for granted that your supplements aren't causing some of the problems, eg. d-ribose gave me a 4pm headache every day I took it, think it was working on the energy but once I reaised the connection I stopped.
    Your 3hrs nap sounds like heaven:) hope it didn't affect your nightime sleep.
  13. heapsreal

    heapsreal iherb 10% discount code OPA989,

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    Maybe increasing energy without treating the underlying source/infection is going to eventually cause unwanted symptoms, plus its knowm that the hypothalamus in cfsers is damaged and this is the part of the brain that controls alot of functions, so maybe speeding up energy is effecting it negatively in some way, really who knows????? It gave me a few good weeks of energy and will add it back to my supplement stack when i feel the need. I think anything that speeds us up is probably not going to help us. Im starting to really think that we need to look at things that improve out recovery ability and good quality sleep, growth hormone and xyrem??? Bucklrys of me getting those.

    cheers!!!

    cheers!!!
  14. caledonia

    caledonia

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    Rich Vank says glutathione is also depleted in the hypothalamus and pituitary (besides the liver) and the methylation protocol will increase it.

    I've been finding methylation + adrenal support to be a very good combination.
  15. Dreambirdie

    Dreambirdie work in progress

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    For the record, here's my routine for supporting and healing fatigued adrenals, which includes lifestyle management as well as supplements.

    1) Get to bed BEFORE 10 PM, and sleep as much as possible
    2) Always start daily activity AFTER eating a hardy breakfast that includes PROTEIN
    3) Always eat PROTEIN at EACH MEAL and have PROTEIN SNACKS 2X/day
    4) Never let myself run on empty, regarding both food and energy--take time to EAT and RECHARGE
    5) Avoid toxic pollutants in my environment and diet
    6) Avoid toxic people, who eat my energy

    7) include some of these adaptogens and supplements for adrenals in my routine:
    ADAPTOGENS: siberian ginseng, ashwaghanda, schizandra, sasparilla. I try to rotate them, when I remember.

    Licorice, I agree with Mr Kite, can be hugely beneficial as well.

    VITAMINS: B5 (pantothenic acid) about 2-3 grams each day, and 50 mg P5P (B6), 3-5 grams Vitamin C, about 400 mg of magnesium.

    8) Use MOXA on Kidney 1, Stomach 36, and Spleen 6--for a few minutes on each point.
    I have used these during exhaustion crises, like after being struck by lightning. Very effective on me.

    KIDNEY 1--on BOTTOM OF THE FOOT
    http://www.acupuncture.com/education/points/kidney/kid1.htm

    STOMACH 36--below the knee, to the outside of leg
    http://www.acupuncture.com/education/points/stomach/st36.htm

    SPLEEN 6--on inside of leg, up about 4-5 fingers width from ankle
    http://www.acupuncture.com/education/points/spleen/sp6.htm
    Fogbuster likes this.
  16. Dreambirdie

    Dreambirdie work in progress

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    REGARDING GINSENG:

    There are several kinds of ginseng: American, Chinese, Korean, and Siberian. All except the Siberian ginseng are considered to have "hot" or stimulating qualities, which IMO are not the best thing for depleted adrenals. The Siberian ginseng, aka Eleutherococcus senticosus, which is actually NOT A TRUE GINSENG at all, and is in an entirely different family of plants, has been a much better choice for me for adrenal fatigue. It does not have the highly stimulating qualities of the others.
  17. caledonia

    caledonia

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    Just stopping by to say that I finally did the ASI adrenal saliva test Monday (yesterday) and the morning cortisol test my doc wanted this morning. I should have the results in a couple of weeks.
  18. caledonia

    caledonia

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    It's been exactly two weeks since I mailed in my ASI test. I'm expecting the results any day now. I'll let you know when I get them.
  19. caledonia

    caledonia

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    I have my results and surprise, they're HIGH. I found out I did the test wrong by not discontinuing adrenal cortex extract, but they can work around this so I don't have to retest (phew). My appointment is tomorrow.
  20. Sallysblooms

    Sallysblooms P.O.T.S. now SO MUCH BETTER!

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    Cortisol is high? Did you test for levels all day or did you take just one test?

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