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Adrenal Issues and treatment problems

Discussion in 'Adrenal Dysfunction' started by Misfit Toy, Feb 14, 2011.

  1. jeffrez

    jeffrez Senior Member

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    Hi Caledonia - interesting post. It's definitely useful to chart your sleep in some way. Excel charting is a good way, or just a simple text file can help.

    I don't agree about taking the samples according to one's personal schedule. We are seriously hormonally dysregulated, and the altered circadian rhythms are indicative and a result of that. I think taking the samples as close to the actual recommended time as possible is probably more useful in showing what's going on in the dysfunction, and an important part of trying to readjust the rhythms back to some semblance of normalcy. If the cortisol bottoms out at 8am and then shoots up at noon, or crashes at midnight, or whenever it's doing, that is important information to have. If you skew the samples by taking them at non-standard times, the results you get not only are going to be less revealing, but conceivably could also end up being detrimental when it comes to treatment. That's just imho, but it seems to make sense that if we're trying to correct back to normal, we should compare to actual normal to see what's off.
     
  2. caledonia

    caledonia

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    Another possibility, and what I may have actually done just to be safe, is to wait until your sleep cycle comes around to a normal sleep schedule.

    In other words, if you have the forward moving sleep cycle, about the half the time it will be reversed from the rest of the world, but the other half of the time it will be in sync. So if you want to be sure, then wait a couple of weeks, or however long it takes you, until you're synchronized, then take the test.
     
  3. TheMoonIsBlue

    TheMoonIsBlue Senior Member

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    Hi, thanks to everyone.

    I am going to go ahead and do the test the best I can. It could be a month, or much longer, before my sleep is "normal" going to bed at midnight waking at 6-8 am. Sometimes it moves forward a bit every day, other times it moves forward about 2 hours in one day and stays at that time for a few weeks. I really want to get the test done NOW, while I am having so many problems and am so sick, so we can see what is happening during these severe total-body breakdown periods.

    I am STILL having my period (my 3rd in a little over one month) and it is going on nine days......."I do NOT enjoy being a girl"....LOL.....I have NO idea what is happening, this has never happened before, I just saw my Gyno and told them my periods were regular and have been since I was 12! Leave it to me to start having bizarre irregular periods right after my appointment!...I hope the test shows something!

    Hi SING- I do take prescription sleep meds, I can't fall asleep without them. But whatever is happening during these episodes where I am having shut down exhaustion, before and during my menstrual cycle, the sleep meds just barely work. Like some hormone is making it impossible for me to sleep much at all. When I'm not having these episodes, I usually sleep atleast 7+ hours, sometimes more. But it is just never, ever refreshing. I guess I can go to my doc and beg to try different meds (I've already tried A LOT) so I always have something different on hand. That's not something doctors usually like to do. I''m also running out of things to try.
    I had a sleep study- I get no stage 3/4 sleep. I had no sleep apnea. I have no sleep cycle at all, without meds. Even with meds, it moves around the clock forward. Nothing I have tried has helped. I took trazodone for a while but now I can not even tolerate a tiny bit of it. All anti-depressants make me insane. I don't know what else to ask my doctor to try, muscle relaxers perhaps? I feel if I could find some combo of meds to put me to sleep for a solid 10 hours a night, I would feel so much better. But.....I'm at the mercy of the doctors like everyone else.

    Thanks again

    :) Moon :)
     
  4. heapsreal

    heapsreal iherb 10% discount code OPA989,

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    sleep wise i have been finding phosphatidylserine 100mg with tryptophan 3000mg helping with sleep, although i still use sleep meds with it, it has improved my sleep. still have a couple of nights a week that are shockers. Also look into seroquel if sleep is a real big problem, it can help alot, i find it sort of resets the brain after a few crappy nights and then can sleep better the next few nights on my normal bed time cocktail.

    cheers!!!
     
  5. Sing

    Sing Senior Member

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    Hi Moon!

    I am sorry you have such a bumpy road in terms of sleeping and your menstrual cycle (ratios and amounts of female hormones on board). Cheney recommends two drugs for sleep for those with ME/CFS. One is Clonazepam (Klonopin) and the other? Doxepin, also Magnesium Gycinate. I've been using a half of the smallest pill of Clonazepam lately to good effect, and I also use Gabapentin, which increases the calming amino acid GABA for pain relief and sleep.

    I hope you find a good working combination soon!

    Sing

    Dr. Paul Cheney Discusses the Benefits of Klonopin
    by Carol Sieverling
    October 12, 2001



    Editor’s Note: The following is based on a recent interview conducted by Carol Sieverling with Dr. Paul R. Cheney, M.D., Ph.D., and the article "CFIDS Treatment: The Cheney Clinic’s Strategic Approach" (CFIDS Chronicle, Spring 1995). Dr. Cheney gave permission to share this information, but has not reviewed or edited it.

    Many CFIDS specialists prescribe the drug Klonopin. In the October 1999 issue of The Fibromyalgia Network, nine CFS/FM specialists summarized their most effective treatments, and six included Klonopin. Interestingly, the three who did not are primarily FM specialists.

    Dr. Cheney prescribes Klonopin to address a condition associated with CFIDS called "excitatory neurotoxicity." To explain this condition to patients, he draws a line with "seizure" on the far left and "coma" on the far right. A big dot in the middle represents where healthy people are when awake. A dot somewhat to the right of the middle indicates where healthy people are when asleep – slightly shifted toward coma. He highlights in red the left portion of the line, from seizure to the middle, and labels it "Neurotoxic State" (damaging to the brain). He highlights in blue the right portion of the line, from coma to the middle, and labels it "Healing State."

    In CFIDS, an ongoing injury to the brain shifts patients toward seizure. A dot to the left of the middle, marked "injury," represents the position of CFIDS patients. This puts us in the red "Neurotoxic" zone. When we shift toward seizure, we often experience "sensory overload." It’s as if our brain’s "radar" is too sensitive. Our neurons (nerve cells) are sensing stimuli and firing when they should not. This causes amplification of sensory input. Light, noise, motion and pain are all magnified. At the beginning of their illness, many patients report feeling exhausted, yet also strangely "wired." The "wired" feeling is the slight shift towards seizure that occurs as a result of the excitatory neurotoxicity.

    Cheney frequently uses the term "threshold potential" when discussing excitatory neurotoxicity. (Think of the threshold - bottom - of a doorway. The lower it is, the more accessible it is. When it is at floor level, everything can enter. When it is raised, access is restricted to taller people. If it is too high, no one can enter.) Threshold potential refers to how much stimulus it takes to make neurons fire. If the threshold potential is too low, even slight stimulation is "allowed to enter" and is detected by the neurons. This causes the neurons to fire, resulting in sensory overload. If the threshold is dropped to nothing, all stimuli get through and the neurons fire continuously, resulting in a seizure. If the threshold is raised, only stronger stimuli can make neurons fire. A healthy person’s threshold potential naturally rises at bedtime, promoting sleep. If the threshold potential is too high, you feel drugged or drowsy. If the threshold potential is raised extremely high, coma results.

    Two receptors in the brain, NMDA and GABA, determine the threshold potential. During the waking hours of a healthy person, NMDA and GABA should be equally active. This balances the person in the middle of the seizure/coma continuum. NMDA stimulates, and GABA inhibits. If NMDA increases, one moves toward seizure. If GABA increases, one moves toward coma.

    In CFIDS, NMDA is more activated than GABA, lowering the threshold potential. This causes neurons to fire with very little stimulation, resulting in sensory overload. This condition of excitatory neurotoxicity is dangerous. Dr. Cheney emphasizes that in an attempt to protect itself, the body will eventually kill neurons that fire excessively. He states that brain cell loss can result if this condition isn’t addressed.

    How can the brain be protected against excitatory neurotoxicity? Klonopin. This long acting benzodiazepine has been Dr. Cheney’s most effective drug for CFIDS over the years. He believes that Klonopin and the supplement magnesium may be two of the most important treatments for CFIDS patients because of their neuroprotective qualities. He recommends two or more 0.5 mg tablets of Klonopin at night. Paradoxically, very small doses (usually a quarter to a half a tablet) in the morning and mid-afternoon improve cognitive function and energy. If the daytime dose is low enough, you’ll experience greater clarity and think better. If the daytime dose is too high, you’ll become drowsy. Adjust your dose for maximum benefit, taking as much as possible without drowsiness. Adjust the morning dose first, then take the same amount mid-afternoon if needed, then take three to four times the morning dose at bedtime. Dr. Cheney recommends doubling the dose during severe relapses.

    Dr. Cheney most frequently prescribes the combination of Klonopin and Doxepin, along with the supplement "Magnesium Glycinate Forte." Magnesium Glycinate alone is a good choice for the more budget minded(www.ImmuneSupport.com sells it as "Magnesium Plus".) A common dosage of magnesium is 200 mgs at bedtime. Too much magnesium can cause diarrhea, though glycinate is usually the best tolerated form.

    Cheney prescribes Doxepin in the form of a commercial elixir (10mg/ml). At low doses, this tricyclic antidepressant acts as a very potent antihistamine and immune modulator. Doxepin acts synergistically with Klonopin to assist sleep, and may improve pain. Patients tend to be very sensitive to Doxepin, which can cause morning fog and fatigue if the dose is too high (5 to 10 mg or higher). He recommends starting at two drops a night and gradually increasing the dose until "morning fog" becomes a problem. Most patients can’t tolerate more than half a cc.

    On a handout entitled "Neuroprotection via Threshold Potentials," Cheney lists six substances that can protect the brain. Under the category "NMDA Blockers" Cheney lists:

    1. Parenteral magnesium and taurine (intramuscular injections of magnesium and taurine, usually given with procaine)
    2. Histamine blockers (Doxepin Elixir)
    Under the category "GABA Agonists" (increases GABA) Cheney lists:
    3. Klonopin
    4. Neurontin
    5. Kava Kava
    6. Valerian Root

    Klonopin is taken "day and night"; Neurontin "night, or day and night"; kava kava “daytime only”; and valerian “nighttime only.” The first four are by prescription, the last two are herbs. In my limited experience, only certain patients are put on magnesium/taurine injections, and then only for a limited period before switching to oral supplements.

    Many myths abound concerning Klonopin. When asked about these myths, Dr. Cheney shared the following information.

    MYTH NUMBER ONE: THE GENERIC IS JUST AS GOOD.

    When the generic Clonazepam came on the market, many patients switched to it because it was less expensive than Klonopin. Cheney then began hearing that most patients had to take more Clonazepam to get the same effect. Generics aren’t exactly identical to the original products, and with most drugs the slight variations don’t matter. However, most CFIDS patients can tell the difference between Klonopin and its generic form, Clonazepam. Most find Klonopin to be more effective.

    MYTH NUMBER TWO: KLONOPIN IS ADDICTIVE.

    Dr. Cheney was adamant that Klonopin is not addictive. In treating thousands of patients, he has never seen a patient become addicted to Klonopin. He reviewed the definition of addiction, stating that it involves:
    (1) psychosocial disruption, (2) accelerated use, (3) inappropriate use, and (4) drug seeking behavior.

    Dr. Cheney said a case might be made that Klonopin is habituating. It’s true that it can’t be stopped suddenly. You must taper off of it gradually. However, he was cautious about even calling it habituating. The process of tapering off a drug is not the same thing as withdrawal, a term that implies addiction.

    Dr. Cheney said to keep in mind that Klonopin is given for a physiological problem – excitatory neurotoxicity. It’s prescribed to adjust the threshold potential: to keep neurons from firing inappropriately and being destroyed. He stressed that Klonopin should never be given unless you intend to raise the threshold potential. He stated, "Problems arise when you begin to use benzodiazapines for reasons other than threshold manipulation." However, CFIDS patients have a "threshold potential aberration" and need Klonopin (or something similar) to avoid brain injury. Dr. Cheney has never seen a recovered patient have difficulty coming off Klonopin. He stated, "When you no longer need the drug, coming off it is very easy."

    On the other hand, trouble arises when someone who still has an injured brain tries to come off Klonopin. It’s like a thyroid patient stopping their thyroid medication. Dr. Cheney warned, "All hell breaks loose". However, it’s not because the drug is addicting, and it’s not withdrawal. The condition still exists, and the body lets you know it has a legitimate physical need for the drug. Cheney stated, "When a CFIDS patient who is still experiencing the underlying mechanisms of brain injury goes off Klonopin, there is a burst of excess neural firing and cell death. That’s the havoc we hear about that is mistakenly called withdrawal."

    MYTH NUMBER THREE: KLONOPIN DISRUPTS STAGE 4 SLEEP.

    Dr. Cheney said that he honestly doesn’t understand this concern. He believes Klonopin might disrupt the sleep of people who take it for conditions other than the threshold potential aberration found in CFIDS. He also acknowledged that if you are looking just for drugs to facilitate sleep, Klonopin is certainly not the first one to come to mind, nor should it be used to induce sleep in "ordinary" patients. It’s not a sleep drug per se. However, a large part of the sleep disorder of CFIDS is excitatory neurotoxicity and the resulting shift toward seizure. If you treat this condition with Klonopin, then you have treated a large part of the sleep disorder in CFIDS. Most importantly, he said he simply does not see stage 4 sleep disruption in his patients on Klonopin.

    Towards the end of this discussion on Klonopin, Cheney smiled, and remarked, "But suppose I’m wrong about the brain injury and the threshold potential aberration and the shift toward seizure? What if I’m wrong about your need for Klonopin? I’m absolutely sure I’m right, but what’s the worst case scenario? Do you know what long-term studies on Klonopin have shown? Reduced incidence of Alzheimer’s Disease. Alzheimer’s Disease is a complicated and convoluted way of knocking out your neurons, and Klonopin protects your neurons. Now it’s believed that Klonopin didn’t actually stop Alzheimer’s. It just delayed its onset so long that everyone died of something else before they ever got it - which is to say you won’t get Alzheimer’s. You’ll die of something else first."

    The last question Cheney addressed concerned the dose: what happens if the dose is too high? He said the only down side was that if you took a little too much (we are not talking overdose here) it would shift you toward coma on the continuum. It would shut your brain down to some degree, and thus impact your ability to function. This is inconvenient, but it’s not harmful. In fact, it shifts you into the "healing state" on the continuum. You may feel like a zombie, but your brain is protected and your neurons are not getting fried. However, not being able to function isn’t an option for most of us, so we need to find the maximum dose that doesn’t make us drowsy.

    Dr. Cheney emphasized that Klonopin, Doxepin, and magnesium are very, very good at protecting the brain from cell death due to excess firing. However, they can’t stop the underlying mechanisms of CFIDS that are injuring the brain in the first place.

    Though it can’t stop the underlying mechanisms causing the injury, Klonopin can protect your brain and keep your neurons from being destroyed. Then, as Cheney put it, "When you come out on the other side of this, you’ll have more of your brain left."








    Sing
     
  6. August59

    August59 Daughters High School Graduation

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    I can agree with the Klonopin theory. It works very well and I have had stop taking it twice without any problems. I tapered off of over a 3 week period and used L-theanine at the end, but don't know if it actually helped or not. I can surely see myself taking it again.
     
  7. nanciswell

    nanciswell

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    Hello SPitfire

    Concerning your original question.. re having problems with taking HC , etc.. I had that problem and know of others in a similar position.. I came across a possible expanation by Dr Shoemaker concerning adrenal problems .
    The below is from the 2005 book mold warriors:


    'Once the heightened ACTH response burns out, however, the symptoms we
    associate with MSH deficiency quickly appear. The hyper-stimulation of adrenal
    production of cortisol also falls as ACTH levels fall, which results in a rapid
    crash from high to low cortisol levels in blood. As an omen of impending
    disaster, however, many doctors will measure cortisol, find it low and
    mistakenly prescribe extra cortisol without knowing that low ACTH might also be
    present.

    '.Unfortunately, what this supplemental cortisol does is further suppress the
    already compromised ACTH production. Without ACTH, bad health problems can be
    made much worse. I say treating biotoxin illnesses with steroids is similar to
    throwing gasoline on a fire , and with good reasons. I can't tell you how
    many biotoxin disasters I've seen, from optic neuritis being turned into
    blindness to inflammatory joints turning into frozen joints, when a physician
    prescribed steroids. Don't let anyone give them to you if you're biotoxic!'

    I am taking homeopathics for the specific glands that regulate the hormones that produce MSH, adrenalin etc.. Since starting on homeopathic hypothalamus my severe adrenal problems of not sleeping , severe exhaustion and sweats annd oily hair have mostly resolved. I still have chronic fatigue but am able to get out of bed.
    I had to also do a total exclusion diet for my food sensitivities as eating those foods I am intolerant of was just way too stressful on my adrenals to have the homeopathic do permanent good.

    nanci

    ________________________
     
  8. heapsreal

    heapsreal iherb 10% discount code OPA989,

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    Thats interesting, as some docs say low doses of HC <20mg a day in divided doses doesnt cause negative feedback problems, but then some do like dr shoemaker. WHat are others experience with low dose HC, did it lower their natural production by shuting there system down?? or is it an individual thing?
     
  9. soxfan

    soxfan Senior Member

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    I was on 20mg of cortef for almost 4 years and I do believe it suppressed my adrenals. I think my doctor should have started me lower and see how I did. I was told that for my size body it should be making around 20mg cortisol daily and that is what I was taking so I was totally supplementing and not making my adrenals work. I know during stress the body makes more and I did have testing to show that they could when stimulated.

    It was very tough tapering off the 20mg and now I am off I feel much worse than when I was ever on them. I am not sure if it is because my adrenals are trying to recover or I really do need it..I can tell you it has been a very unpleasant experience. My doctor doesn't do the blood cortisol because the range is (4-23) and that is not divided into times so that range is for the entire day..my morning cortisol is usually under 10 at 8am which means that is my peak for the entire day..not good.

    I just had my blood done and it was 8.2 and my saliva was flat so I am not sure what to do..he wants me to go back on 10mg of cortef and my endo says NO.
    I am not sure the HC helped me but I felt so much better a year ago when I was still on 10mg....
     
  10. nanciswell

    nanciswell

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    I will share my experience with adrenals.

    I tried taking hydrocortisone cream last March 2010.. I felt an improvement . Then started to notice my gut get worse.. Ending up with severe constipation which has still not corrected a year later.!!

    Now I cannot say for sure but I do suspect it was the actual HC that made me worse. I tried a cream which had the chemical called propylene glycol { natural antifreeze} Then I went onto a compounded HC and still felt bad. Originally I had blamed the propylene glycol for the constipation.> BUt now I am suspecting more the affects of the actual HC..



    I had started doing frequent dose chelation Sept of 2010.. I had noticed something in Nov 2010 that was changing.. My hair got unbeleivable oily.. My hair has always been perfect.. Able to wash once every ten days if I wanted to.. Then got so oily pretty well overnight that I had to wash every day and had to use alot of soap..

    THen had a crisis after a chelation round at Christmas 2010.. Severe exhaustion ,could not sleep, severe sweating all day long.. very scared .. did not go to hospital as I have been there without any help before.

    I started taking the hypothalamus homeopathic a couple of weeks later and things began to improve. dramatically. Within three days my hair was back to it glorius self.

    Then the sweats stopped. Then I noticed how my manic/ hyper feelings started to balance to a more calm. I started to sleep better.

    I did this for two months then someone mentioned taking other hormonal gland homeopathics.

    I first added in thymuline .. a homeopathic of thymulin.. .. I have had a feeling of always having a fever.. feeling like I would be getting a virus the next day.. yet never came down with anything.. This went away on the H thymuline.

    THen I added in thymus homeopathic.. That day things changed.I felt more energy and calm that whole day.. . I awoke during the night feeling in a panic.. hard time breathing, THe panic was . a totally new symptom for me . I took another dose of thymus during the nigth and the panic stopped and I went back to sleep .. This happened twice more that night.. This continued for another week..

    The positive affects have been major. I do not need to take sulfate supplemetation as I did before.. Previously I needed epsom salts baths / soaks a few times a day and again during the night if I woke up. I have not had any now for four days and am doing fine.

    Before when I had interstitial cystitis pain having an epsom salts soak would relieve the pain.> Now I take a dose of thymus and the pain goes away.

    And when I am having a food reaction to salicylates in pears , I get sleepy and my gut hurts.. Now I take a dose of thymus H and I feel better.

    I added in homeopathic parathyroid day 7 after starting the thymus H. 14 days later I am now sleeping through the night without any waking up.. The parathyroid gland balances things out during the night.. SO my theory is that the thymus H was making my body do an adjustment and that the parathyroid H may have helped this adjustment?

    The other hormone glandulars are pineal which makes melatonin, and pancreas. I did try the pineal a few times a couple of months ago.. The first night it really soothed my nerves but it did not hold..

    I have not tried the pancreas for a couple of years..

    What i would like to point out is that I had tried all most of these homeopathics before doing a total exclusion diet. I did notice improvements but very , very small in comparison to now.. Before stopping all foods/ chemicals I am sensitive to , my adrenals were severely stressed .. I theorise that this stress was just too much for the homeopathics to have long lasting affects.

    Nanci
     
  11. Sing

    Sing Senior Member

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    We aren't all in the same boat, clearly. I never had symptoms of too much cortisol or any other hormone. I've always been "low". So it couldn't have been a case of "burned out adrenals". Anyway, the amount of cortisol I got on, 5 mg two times per day, has been a big help. This is not excessive for me. The "physiological dose", that is, the replacement dose if you had no adrenal gland at all, is said to be either 40 or 30 mg per day. This goes up, or would, in case of severe stress, illness, surgery, etc. In those cases the body would normally produce more, temporarily only. The amount of cortisol I have taken has not suppressed my adrenal functioning, on testing--that is, hasn't stopped it. This is what Dr. Jefferies found in Safe Uses of Cortisol, his book about his clinical and research work in this area.

    The bias out there is that everyone's adrenals are fine and don't need any more cortisol, which is supposedly always harmful. But the truth is that some people have low adrenal output, including a lot of people with ME-CFS, who can benefit from low dose supplementation. I also believe very much in the body's feedback. If your/my body gives you the symptoms of hypo or hyper adrenia/cortisol production, you can believe it. Our bodies are extremely sensitive, accurate instruments for feedback about themselves, if that makes any sense.

    I hope this helps.
     
  12. Navid

    Navid Senior Member

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    homeopathics

    nanci

    did u have a professional directing your homeopathic treatment. it is very interesting.


    thanks
     
  13. soxfan

    soxfan Senior Member

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    My doctor agrees with Dr. Jefferies...there are people that have low cortisol output and need to be on low doses of cortef..I believe I was on too much for too long and it caused my adrenals to become lazy. I felt good on 10mg which is what I hope to be put back on.
     
  14. pepegracie

    pepegracie

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    I would like to know if anyone out there with these symptoms has had any fainting and/or feeling dizzy upon standing issues? This and constant fatigue as of late are what have brought me to the conclusion that I may have adrenal fatgiue. I am going to see an MD that actually believes in this condition on Monday. My whole life I've been healthy but as of lately I can't stand up for more than 10-15 mins w/o moving and I want to sleep all the time. I am an overachieving pre-med with a perfect GPA who likes go-go-go so maybe I'm paying for what I've put my body through. Any advice/experience would be appreciated! Thanks!
     
  15. nanciswell

    nanciswell

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    HI Navid

    I am pursuring this by myself.. I had a dog who got totally better from cushings disease by taking homeopathic ACTH. Cushings is from a problem with adrenal system.. She was schedualed for surgery to remove either her pituitary or the adrenal gland due to a tumour. With a $20 bottle of homeopathic ACTH and 10 days of treatment she was back to full energy. Another month on the remedy and she lived for another three wonderfully healthy years until age 16 . \\

    SO I tried it when I suspected adrenal problems years later and felt some improvment . Then I did some reading to find out about the adrenal system and other glandular hormonal systems and decided to try the other homeopathics.
     
  16. nanciswell

    nanciswell

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    I used to feel dizzy all the time.. DOing an elimination diet for food sensitivities and avoiding foods which have salicylates stopped the dizziness.

    I have a full range of food intolerances with little I can tolerate. I have had this illness now for 35 years. It started right after taking an antiparasite drug which I now have heard often have high antimony.. I have a full range of the symptoms of antimony poisoning.. Could be who knows?

    . The homeopathic thymus seems to be helping with my food sensitivity . I recently read something about one theory of food sensitivity having to do with the immune system . http://www.dld123.com/mcs/recovery3.html

    Not sure what I have posted here and not.. so if repeating sorry

    I have found that when I have an acute infection.. I recently had a bladder ecoli infection. , my need for sulfate was greatly reduced.. People with salicylate problems often need sulfate supplementation. Now that I am on the homeopathic thymus I no longer am needing the epsom salts .. so far anyways and it has been five days .. totally amazing in my case where I would do anything just to get my sulfate fix to pick up my energy and help with my pain..
     
  17. heapsreal

    heapsreal iherb 10% discount code OPA989,

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    http://www.iherb.com/Allergy-Research-Group-Nutricology-Hypothalamus-100-Veggie-Caps/16690?at=0 anyone used this product, the reviews of users say its helped with sleep etc.
    Also from what i have read in adrenal fatigue cortisol levels start off high and if this go's on for too long the cortisol levels drop to a low level. Dhea is suppose to help counter act cortisol levels and its supposedly drops off early in adrenal fatigue.

    Has anyone tried using high doses of vit b5 doses of 500mg to 1000mg?? Im finding its helping and some days get abit of the anxiety type gitters which i have never had, which i am taking as my adrenals starting to kick in, but when i get abit gittery i back off the b5 for a day, but it seems to be when i go to the 1000mg dose. b5 is suppose to be what your adrenals use to make all the hormones. Im finding the longer i go on this treatment the better my energy is and the gitterness is slowly reducing. Get dhea and cortisol tested soon, so will post this when i get the results.

    cheers!!!
     
  18. nanciswell

    nanciswell

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    I used high doses of P5 for a few years prior to my most important part of my healing.. ie a total elimination diet .. did not help me ..

    I am now taking 500mg daily and off of all food sensitivities , now for five months and did not notice any difference.

    I am quite confident that the dried hypothalamus concentrate from iherb would be something high in amines which make me ill ..
     
  19. heapsreal

    heapsreal iherb 10% discount code OPA989,

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    Keep us updated on how u go. I think it will take time and a slow incremental doses to get there. Phosphatidyle serine can also help if cortisol are whacky and u get high night time elevation. Plus treating the cause of adrenal fatigue is important like chronic infections and immune dysfunction.

    cheers!!!
     
  20. Sing

    Sing Senior Member

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    New England
    Replying just to Soxfan:

    Yeah, 20 mg is high for supplemental cortisol. I hope you can get on the lower dose that puts you into balance.

    Replying to Pepegracie:

    Orthostatitc Intolerance, hypotension on standing, is one of the most characteristic symptoms of ME/CFS by the Canadian Consensus Definition. I've found that it has increased for me with more wear and tear.

    There is another thread just on this, or more than one thread. Some get help with Cortef, or Fludrocortisone, or Midodrine or in extreme cases with POTS, Beta blockers. These haven't fixed my problem, however.

    I use support stockings, sit, lean, lie or move, but limit plain standing as much as I can. Having to go through the drop in blood pressure, does cause more fatigue, for sure! This is a problem with the Autonomic Nervous System--

    Sing
     

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