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Adrenal Fatigue? I'm confused.

Discussion in 'Detox: Methylation; B12; Glutathione; Chelation' started by bigmit, Sep 3, 2015.

  1. bigmit

    bigmit

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    I went to an acupuncturist and she told me I have adrenal fatigue.
    She made me sit down and stand up and then she told me instead of my blood pressure rising it went down 20 points, which is a sign of adrenal fatigue according to her.
    I don't really think my adrealans are shot as I have anxiety issues..

    I did a recent cortisol blood Am test and results were fine.


    At the moment, my main problem is my nervous system and anxiety. Little pain trigger anxiety ( I don't even know if its real pain or just pyschosomatic anxiety). I also noticed my mind travels to anxious part of my brain.
    For example as I type this email, my mind will wander to a part of my brain which then triggers an unsafe feeling. It's as if my mind doesn't feel safe and is looking for reassurance from that part of the brain. When I try to relax my body I feel all these weird sensations in my head and a loss of control feeling and anxiety.
    Yes I feel anxiety when I try to relax my body. I also have irrational phobias.


    I tried methylation and b-vitamins and they were giving my temporary energy, I decided to try Remeron for sleep and anxiety but it didn't really help so I got off of Remeron (SNRI) and the b-vitamins stopped working and I actually got really sick for about month. I don't know if the Jarrrow's 500 mg (the one B12 I recently bought is just no good). My thyroid is normal, I'm under weight, My cholestrol is low. My blood pressure is around 110.

    I have low concentration energy and my body can't deal with stress well.




    I think my fatigue is related to what seems to be a stuck nervous system--it sees to be not flowing properly.
    I feel like my legs are weak but no they are not physically- it's my brain not connecting with my legs.
    If I force myself I can run and jump no problem but I don't feel the strength in my legs. It's a weird sensation.

    I have been to a couple of pyschiatrists and some say OCD, some say GAD.

    I"m tapering off Kolonopin at the moment as it's not really helping anything. I think it's causing weight loss and loss of appetite.

    I don't know if I should try getting back on SSRIs. I didn't tolerate most of them. Do things like Tryptophan and 5htp work?


    I'm on some Chinese Herbs from a practitioner for digestion and stress support and emotion. They were helping before but I've hit a ceiling it seems. I just used it to maintain now.

    No one is really understanding my condition. I'm been resting for about 4-5 years and I can't seem to get better.. I have trouble functioning.

    I don't really think my adrenals are the problem but something off with my brain and nervous system.

    Does anyone have any suggestions?

    Thanks.
     
  2. Ema

    Ema Senior Member

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    Anxiety can be a common sign of adrenal dysfunction (they don't really fatigue...either they don't get proper signals from the brain which is HPA axis dysfunction or they are the target of autoimmune disease) due to adrenaline surges.

    BP dropping is a sign of orthostatic intolerance and one reason for this may be low cortisol.

    The best way to know for sure is to take a saliva cortisol test which will measure your cortisol output across the day and compare it to the normal range for the circadian rhythm. You can order it yourself for about $100.

    http://www.canaryclub.org/specializ...-zrt-stress-hormone-test-kit-c1-c2-c3-c4.html

    You may also have some dysregulation in your GABA system, especially as you wean from the Klonopin. It may be worth looking into supplements to support GABA. Skullcap is a good one because it can tamp down microglial inflammation. It's also a GABAA agonist (like benzos but non-addictive) and helps to reduce inflammation and pain.

    5-HTP can work very well...if you are low in serotonin. Not all with ME/CFS are low in serotonin though and there is some evidence of overactive serotonin receptors (in postviral fatigue - http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1586780). It's relatively benign to try though at lower doses to see if you get a positive benefit.
     
    Last edited: Sep 3, 2015
  3. whodathunkit

    whodathunkit Senior Member

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    @Ema, thank you for that link!
     
  4. bigmit

    bigmit

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    Thanks.. I've actually had OCD for a very long time and then a stress full period and lose of weight put me into anxious state for a long time.

    Is Tryptophan okay to try instead of 5http? Would that be a safer alternative?
     
  5. Ema

    Ema Senior Member

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    Both tryptophan and 5HTP work on the same principles but one may work better than another for any particular person. You just have to experiment.

    Inositol is often recommended for OCD.
     
  6. bigmit

    bigmit

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    Thank you so much
     
  7. caledonia

    caledonia

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    These are all symptoms of adrenal fatigue

    They would. They don't consider things like adrenal fatigue, heavy metal toxicity, methylation, vitamin deficiency, etc.

    Klonopin depletes melatonin, and so perversely (as its often prescribed for sleep) it will cause insomnia. You can try supplementing with 1.5mg of melatonin until you've been off the Klonopin for a month or so.

    Klonopin can cause rebound anxiety at it wears out of your system. I've tapered off benzos a couple times including Klonopin. I would reduce the pill a bit and then hold that amount for a week. I would have some smaller issues with extra anxiety over the next several days. Then, at the one week point, I would invariably have a larger bout with anxiety (panic attack). Then if I made it through that I was fine, having adjusted to the new amount. Then when I was ready, I would repeat the process, until I was finally off the medicine.

    There can also be withdrawal associated with SSRIs and SNRIs. It doesn't sound like you were on the Remeron for very long, so that's good.

    My suggestion would also be to get a 24 hour cortisol saliva test which shows what your adrenals are doing over the course of a day. There is a specific test which is combined with neurotransmitters http://www.integrativepsychiatry.net/neuroadrenal-essential.html. Then you can see what your GABA, glutamate and serotonin are doing. Then supplement for whatever is low.

    You can ask Integrative Psychiatry, but I think Medicare will pay for that test. You can also pay for a consultation with the psychiatric nurse practitioner at Integrative Psychiatry, who seems to be pretty knowledgeable.

    I have had adrenal fatigue for over a decade and didn't tolerate any of the traditional adrenal glandulars etc., as they were too overstimulating. I finally discovered Dr. Wilson's Adrenal Rebuilder and that was great. I started to feel calm within 15 minutes of taking the first pill.

    Here is my thread on that: http://forums.phoenixrising.me/index.php?threads/dr-wilsons-adrenal-rebuilder-review.36593/
     
    Tammy likes this.
  8. bigmit

    bigmit

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    I was reading here that there are no problems with adrenals but instead a problem with the brain.

    https://www.jackkruse.com/brain-gut-16-adrenal-fatigue-rx/
     
  9. bigmit

    bigmit

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    Everything seems so complicated. There is so much conflicting information.

    How would I know those neurotransmitter tests resemble the amount in the brain?
    I heard GABA can't cross the blood brain barrier. How would I supplement Gaba?


    One last thing. Why are adrenal glandulars stimulating? Isn't that an adverse reaction?
    Shouldn't you feel better when you supply something you body needs?

    I took an glandular a while back and It was too stimulating so I stopped it.
     
    Last edited: Sep 3, 2015
  10. Hip

    Hip Senior Member

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    You might want to try the anti-anxiety supplements detailed on this thread: Completely eliminated my severe anxiety symptoms with three supplements!

    These supplements, especially N-acetyl-glucosamine, often seem to work very well for generalized anxiety disorder (approximately 50% report they work well for their anxiety, although the other 50% report no effect).



    As @Ema noted, you may have orthostatic intolerance. Orthostatic intolerance is where an upright posture (standing up) will trigger symptoms. Two types of orthostatic intolerance that involve a drop of blood pressure are:

    Orthostatic hypotension (OH)
    Neurally mediated hypotension (NMH)


    Here is some info on these two types of orthostatic intolerance in ME/CFS:

    Note that neurally mediated hypotension is also called neurally mediated syncope, neurocardiogenic syncope, vasodepressor syncope, vasovagal syncope, and reflex syncope. A lot of names!

    There seems to be an association between NMH and anxiety:
    An association between anxiety and neurocardiogenic syncope during head-up tilt table testing.
     
  11. caledonia

    caledonia

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    Some people do make the same argument, that you can't directly measure neurotransmitters in the brain, and how do you know the the metabolites (which are what's actually being measured) are accurate?

    However, they have seemed to be accurate for me. I had high glutamate and low GABA, which is supposed to cause anxiety. I had anxiety. I supplemented with GABA (see below) and it was calming. Recently I had low serotonin (probably from years of SSRI use). I was having anxious OCD thoughts. I supplemented with some 5htp and got almost instant relief.

    I was using Pharma GABA which I think is supposed to cross the BBB.

    I believe the issue in this case, is that the adrenals themselves are operating fine. The problem is further upstream with impaired signaling from the pituitary and hypothalamus. So you get the same symptoms as adrenal fatigue and it looks the same on saliva tests. This is where it will look normal on the morning serum cortisol test. I had the same results (while my saliva test showed my adrenals to be basically a flat line).

    As the thyroid and adrenals work together, it also might be possible that your thyroid is not fine, depending on which tests you got. If you just got TSH, that's not good enough. I had normal TSH, while my thyroid antibodies were sky high and got diagnosed with autoimmune thyroiditis (thyroid is attacking itself). You need a complete thyroid panel, TSH, T3, T4, reverse T3, thyroid antibodies.

    I'm investigating mercury toxicity as a root cause for both thyroid and adenal problems, at least for myself. I've made some gains on both thyroid and adrenals (no longer have autoimmune thyroiditis, and 50% improvement in adrenals) which I was attributing to methylation, but now I'm thinking getting out the last of my mercury fillings may have also had an impact. It kind of all happened around the same time so it's hard to say.

    Mercury blocks so many enzymes and pathways in the body (including methylation pathways), it's scary.
     
  12. bigmit

    bigmit

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    Thanks. As far as I know PharmaGaba doesn't cross the blood brain. I think the only one that does is Gaba+Niacin compound of which I forget the name. How many do you take ? I have the chewable version and I took at couple but didn't feel anything.

    I"m trying trytophan right and hopefully see some results for my phobias and OCD.

    How do you reduce the high glutamate?
     
  13. bigmit

    bigmit

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    Thanks. I use Tumeric as well as Ginger which helps relax me a bit.
    I will look into NAG.

    Any recommendations for phobias and OCD?
     
  14. Hip

    Hip Senior Member

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    As @Ema mentioned, inositol can help. High dose inositol powder, taken at a dose of 12 to 18 grams a day (two to three heaped teaspoons), has been shown to treat OCD.
     
  15. caledonia

    caledonia

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    I did a quick google search of Pharma GABA and blood brain barrier. Many sources claim its the only type of GABA which does cross the BBB.

    At any rate, I was taking one pill three or four times a day (with each meal). (Can't remember exactly without looking back in my notes.)

    I was able to reduce the high glutamate by either methylation or a combination of methylation + getting the last of my mercury fillings removed.

    In addition, you can try avoiding all processed food (about half of which contains MSG, so it's just easier to avoid all of it rather try and figure out all the hidden forms of it on labels) and then also the natural form in the foods tomatoes, mushrooms, Parmesan cheese. There was one more I can't remember right now. Maybe peas.
     
  16. bigmit

    bigmit

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    Picamilion is the Gaba that crosses the blood brain barrier.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Picamilon
    Did you feel something the first day you took Pharamagaba because I don't feel anything.



    Hi is there a way to tell if I have mercury problems by trying some herbs?

    I have one tooth with mercury fillings.

    Thanks.
     
  17. prekdw

    prekdw

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    I"m writing to you because our family (5) have had many of the same symptoms as you. We've been down every rabbit hole in search of a solution. All amalgams removed, Cutlers protocol - 10 months, Shoemakers protocol for mold. etc. Do you know if you have a problem with mold or have taken a VCS test? Our family has haplo types that can't detox mold (25% of population). Results are weak adrenals, and a host of other problems ( your list). It's hard to say what came first, but some of us even had inner sinus staff infections from the mold known as MArcons.
    We have tried both Rich's and Freddd's methylation protocol and Freddd's is working for us. The problem with most people is once they get down like you, there is a list of things that have to be done in a certain order to pull yourself out. We've got boxes and boxes of drugs and supplements that don't work and many years of wrong turns...
     

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