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adrenal fatigue and pregnenolone steel

Discussion in 'Adrenal Dysfunction' started by heapsreal, Oct 16, 2011.

  1. heapsreal

    heapsreal iherb 10% discount code OPA989,

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    http://vimeo.com/3818805
    good example of the hormone cascade and how certain hormones flow down to others or diverted away from others during stress/adrenal fatigue. If u considering hormones like dhea etc its worth watching this clip.

    cheers!!!
     
  2. rydra_wong

    rydra_wong Guest

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    Thanks, good post.
    I am afraid I approached this from a bottom up manner but it was driven by extremely high blood pressure (at first only during pms, so obviously hormonally related). I pursued identical hormone replacement but the doctor would not give a high enough dose to replicate what I had labs to prove I had at age 45 even so I bailed and took DHEA and pregnenolone over the counter. My blood pressure went from stage 3 to 'pre' hypertension within a half hour (and 500mg potassium took it the rest of the way to normal), also my pms-forever panic attack went away within a half hour. I have since discovered through testing with a different doctor (Dr. Roberts, www.heartfixer.com) that I have adrenal problems during allergy season. We did not catch it at its most severe - we caught at the beginning of allergy season, but it was easy to determine that was the problem as I started craving salt (I have always been a salt-oholic at times - never knew what caused them where I would have to eat salt or I could not think and felt like I'd pass out) and even though I ate lots of salt my genetically high blood pressure was low. Plus no energy to contemplate even lifting a finger to do one thing that someone wouldn't die if I didn't do. I also noticed adrenal problems cause low blood sugar. I have had life long problems "that would come and go" with low blood sugar and believe this is another sign of adrenal problems. Actually I had figured out the adrenal connection 5 years ago for low blood sugar and started taking Rhodiola, but after menopause it no longer was enough for me. Now I take an dried adrenal product, and though it is one a day, I take it twice a day during allergy season (if I don't I get a low blood sugar attack OR MANY in the afternoon). I just don't think I normally have adrenal problems but it is too much money to run every test under the sun, so right now I take the adrenal supplement when I have allergies or if I feel I'm starting to get low blood sugar...which so far has only happened during allergy season and for some time after until my adrenal gland (or hormone cascade) recovers from allergy season. (fyi DHEA also prevents low blood sugar except it is not enough in allergy season, which prompts me to think I may also take care of this with a very high dose of DHEA at that time, but DHEA is addictive (you may stop producing your own) so I don't want to do that). Just thought I'd want to mention that allergies are a severe source of stress which knock out your adrenals. Allergists MUST know this because they give you a cortizone shot for a bad allergy attack. I stll take the DHEA and pregnenolone. I started a new bioidentical hormone regimen and tried dialing down the DHEA and pregnenolone but I find I cannot or I lose my mind (I can't remember anything -- I could loop around 3 times and still miss my freeway exit, etc). I think the DHEA,Pregnenolone dose worked for me while my ovaries were still producing at a certain level and as that level waned further I needed the estrogen just to keep up. My doctor might be mad at me for not dialing down. But can't be paying for gas then driving off w/o filling the tank, etc.

    If you have allergies --> when exposed to allergens, you have an adrenal problem

    If you have genetically high blood pressure (I had my genes mapped by Dr. Roberts), and you eat salt but have low blood pressure -- > you have adrenal problems

    If you get low blood sugar even though you eat a blood sugar maintaining diet (20 grams of protein at breakfast, low glycemic index foods) --> you have adrenal problems

    If you have panic attacks --> ??? but it is fixed with DHEA

    There is a DHEA:Cortisol ratio that you want of 10:1. DHEA wanes over 30 years of age and the DHEA:cortisol ratio goes down and since this governs how much stress you can take, you find you cannot take stress as well or at all. If you are over 50 you may start to find you cannot tolerate coffee. 2 cups of coffee raise your cortisol something like 30% and that is a STRESS!

    So there are lots of things tied in here of interest.
     
  3. SaraM

    SaraM Senior Member

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    Interesting video. Thanks Heapsreal. Yesterday I tried 10 mg preg and 25 mg Dhea on empty stomach and felt very good. Today they did nothing for me. My morning cortisol is around 10 which is a disaster.
     
  4. heapsreal

    heapsreal iherb 10% discount code OPA989,

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    Sara, i think adrenal hormones is something you have to work on for awhile especially doses until you find what works for you. Im finding after a few days on pregnenolone transdremal cream, only 10mg i get slightly agitated so i back off for a day and then im right to go again. This agitation is slowly easing up as i think my adrenals are starting to work. DHEA orally i think is ok but have heard conflicting things about pregnenolone and that it should be used transdermally, i have only ever used it transdermally so dont have any experience with tablets, i know iherb have a pregnenolone cream. Im going to start adding dhea soon as i know my dhea was quite low and preg didnt really get my levels of dhea up very high, i think i will settle on 5-10mg of preg and maybe try and get my dhea dose up to 50mg a day if i can as that should get me into the upper 1/3 of the reference rangers of dhea on blood tests. I have also been reading how people with low dhea have a high IL6 level which is an inflammatory substance that interferes with sleep, so the theory is that increasing dhea will help with this and improve any sleep problems caused by this, so we will see what happens??

    cheers!!!
     
  5. Gloria H

    Gloria H

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    Hi SaraM
    I am 70. In 2009 my practitioner started me on 35 mg. pregnenolone/5 mg. DHEA [time release] and wanted me on it a month before we evaluated the effect. Now I'm still on 25 mg. pregnenolone [not time release] that I take with breakfast. Judging effect over just a few days may not be a good idea. Blessings to you!
     
  6. rydra_wong

    rydra_wong Guest

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    SaraM, DHEA only stays bin your system 20 hours so by morning you are in the dumps again! You need to STAY at a good level all the time or you won't get the benefit! And I can tell in HALF AN HOUR it is doing it's job -- it stops panic attacks cold and drops my blood pressure over 30 points in half an hour! BUT I take 50mg am, and 25 mg with dinner. Plus I take 30mg pregnenolone in the a.m. Fredd takes 100mg pregnenolone and 25mg DHEA (which is a more reasonable ratio, but it won't work for me. My body wants the DHEA). I think if it helped you once, it HELPS YOU. You just have to keep from falling off the wagon! Take a staggered dose. (And you may find 15 mg morning and 15 mg at dinner is not enough -- maybe your system needs 25mg at all times so maybe another 25mg at dinner...don't take too little a say it does not work. If it worked once, it WORKS. Stop and start every day does not work.
     
  7. heapsreal

    heapsreal iherb 10% discount code OPA989,

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    some practioners recommend transdermal creams for pregnenolone and dhea as they are absorbed into the fatty layer under the skin and slowly released so u get more even delivery of the hormone and more consistant levels. gloria is also right, these hormones take time as well to heal structures in your body, but u do have to go by your personal reactions too as well as blood tests etc
     
  8. SaraM

    SaraM Senior Member

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    Thank you all. I want to play with these hormones for a while and then get tested again, but don't you think we need a break from time to time? I mean when we use hormones on a daily basis, don't adrenal glands get sorta lazy and stop producing the little amount of hormones they are producing now?
     
  9. heapsreal

    heapsreal iherb 10% discount code OPA989,

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    What your referring to is called a negative feedback, my understanding is using hydrocortisone can do this as well as testosterone, so there is a lag before these hormones kick in and are made by the body again, i have read that pregnenolone and dhea dont have negative feedback problems, so there is no supression of our own hormone production, so generally we shouldnt have problems with them. Im not sure about other hormones though. I think once u have your doses dialled in there is no need to come off, at the moment i have the odd break as i think it somehow builds up or its effects build up, but i dont have it dialled in yet. Hormones lower down the stream like testosterone in men when given for HRT can not only suppress the T levels but also pregnenolone and dhea too and probably other hormones. Also for some reason in men especially with age testosterone can convert/aromatize to estrogen, why some bodybuilders end up with man boobs and i have even heard of men lactating because of too higher estrogen from using high levels of testosterone for too long. Alot of hormones play off each other, so its best to start low and go slow and add one at a time and see how it effects other hormones.

    cheers!!!
     
  10. rydra_wong

    rydra_wong Guest

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    Moobs r usually caused by overweight as fat cells produce estrogen. Also they are caused by insufficient choline.
    Look here: http://uk.answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20110830125131AAHQXYQ

    I think maybe u r wrong about dhea and pregnenolone, not that I ever read so, but the folks at www.stopthethyroidmadness.com who are expert at adrenal issues say that you have to be off dhea/pregnenolone for something like 2 weeks before you can get a valid adrenal test -- since dhea is only in the body for 20 hours, the reason has to be that the adrenal gland takes time to wake up again and start producing on its own. That used to concern me but now I say - so what? I can't live w/o a honkin big daily dose of DHEA. i have no choice.
     
  11. heapsreal

    heapsreal iherb 10% discount code OPA989,

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    I dont understand, what part is wrong about pregnenolone and dhea??

    fat cells dont produce estrogen(produced in ovaries, testicles and adrenals as well as aromitization) they have an enzyme that converts/aromatizes testosterone to estrogen (E2) which is why alot of men have low free testosterone levels as they age, put on weight and have hypogonodal symptoms when total testosterone can be adequate. This free testosterone is aromatized into estrogen. A drug called arimidex which is used in estrogen dominant breast cancer in women is used in men but at a lower dose for this purpose. What they find is their E2 reading come back to normal and their freeT increases and symptoms improve and even lose weight as now they are on top of the estrogen dominance which was occurring.

    cheers!!!
     
  12. heapsreal

    heapsreal iherb 10% discount code OPA989,

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    aromatize enzymes are in the fat cells, so i say we both right on that.
     
  13. rydra_wong

    rydra_wong Guest

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    Sorry I misspoke - but it is the fat cells that increase the aromatization of the testosterone. Of course that is not at all the only reason or way to get estrogen dominance as a male. (I forgot what we were talking about (I regard each note in isolation from my Cloud 9) but you are right it is aromatization that fat cells cause. I guess the difference is important if you are trying to get a handle on it.

    But did you get that could be caused by a damaged liver (medicine knows insufficient choline causes this, but I have been getting the feeling that medical science does not know the difference between the liver being damaged and the methyl cycle not working??? - do you think? Might any genetic defect in the methyl cycle cause more aromatization??)

    My aunt was always told she had a bad liver despite that she never drank. I bet it was bad liver lab readings from a genetically malfunctioning methyl cycle.
     
  14. rydra_wong

    rydra_wong Guest

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    oh - now I remember - I do think the adrenal stops producing so much DHEA if you provide it as a pill. I believe it takes up to 2 weks to start up again full fornce (although it starts up again not full force the next day). That is why the labs say to get off adrenal supplements for 10 days or 2 weeks or something before taking an adrenal test.
     
  15. Lotus97

    Lotus97 Senior Member

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    You mention agitation is a side effect of taking pregnenolone, but what if I'm already experiencing that without taking pregnenolone? I sort of been starting and stopping pregnenolone trying to figure out if it's causing side effects, but if my agitation/overstimulation is from low cortisol then I need pregnenolone (?) You're probably not going to be able to answer my question, but I thought I'd ask anyways.:confused:
     
  16. heapsreal

    heapsreal iherb 10% discount code OPA989,

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    as in the other thread, adrenaline could be high to compensate for low cortisol, adrenaline can be causing the agitation.
    I think anything that initially improves cortisol increases agitation as it improves thyroid function and can have an initial dump of extra thyroid which is probably what caused the agitation when i first used pregenolone??
     
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  17. Lotus97

    Lotus97 Senior Member

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    I tried not to say exactly the same thing in both threads, but thanks for responding to both my posts. My question in this thread was about Pregnenolone. If I'm already agitated before I start pregnenolone then I won't know right away whether it's working. How long will it take before I notice improvement and how do I know what dosage start at and when to increase the dosage? I realize these questions are almost impossible to answer, but if you're feeling adventurous you can have a go at it.;)
     
  18. heapsreal

    heapsreal iherb 10% discount code OPA989,

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    firstly i use a transdermal cream, said to be better absorded then tablets. I would start at 5mg which is very low and then increase maybe every 2 days. i found i noticed an affect that day i used it. also use it first thing in the morning. it does have stimulating affects but i found its a calm awareness if dose isnt too high. Also when i was slowly building up the dose i did have days off it here and there as well as i did find it build up in my system for some reason. I think iherb make a pregnenolone cream 15mg dose per pump, can use it in a half pump if need too? If need stronger doses then look into a compounding chemist to make it for you, i have a 100mg/ml dosage and use 1/2 a ml now which is 50mg.

    I think for some if they find pregnenolone hard to tolerate then progesterone cream could then be used as it can also help increase cortisol levels, progesterone also can help sleep and anxiety.
     
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  19. Lotus97

    Lotus97 Senior Member

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    What a coincidence, I just ordered Progesterone a few days ago. I actually ordered it because it's supposed to be an NMDA blocker. Since raising GABA hasn't worked too well for me I'm trying to block NMDA instead.

    One thing I should say about the video. It recommends licorice to raise cortisol. Licorice can also raise blood pressure and lower potassium. The latter being especially troublesome for those doing methylation which can also cause low potassium in some people.
     
  20. heapsreal

    heapsreal iherb 10% discount code OPA989,

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    progesterone can help improve gaba sensitivity, i think can make one feel groggy so need to use at night.
    if u looking into blocking NMDA look into (dxm) Dextromethorphan which is a common ingredient found in cough medicines, its been shown to help fibro patients with some studies done on it but alos helps block NMDA and can help reduce tolerance to benzo's too. info on some sites about dxm are more related to people using to to help them get high of stimulants or benzo's, so have to be careful about the info u read on it, especially doses, 30mg of dxm should be more then enough though if u try it.
     

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