ADHD drugs reduce ME/CFS cognitive dysfunction

[penny]

Yes, I think it helps compensate for decreased blood flow and blood volume.

My doctor prescribed different doses for different patients--usually Adderall as it is 4 different amphetamine salts with different half lives. For me, 1 - 2 mgs makes a big difference--that means cutting the tablet. I do not take this regularly, only very occasionally when I really need more of my brain!
Sushi

Thanks! Good to know, I think my doses weren't that small, but something to experiment with in the future.

I am not sure this theory is correct...stimulant drugs normally reduce the cerebral blood flow by vasoconstriction. Piracetam, vincopetine, resveratrol, forskolin, carnosine and pentoxifylline can probably increase CBF.

But does that take into account lack of cerebral blood flow from OI related causes? My understanding of all of this is very non-technical, but it seems like OI causes/can cause reduced blood flow reaching the brain (because it's pooling in the limbs/trunk), so vasoconstriction of the peripheral blood vessels can then increase blood flow to the brain. Maybe a smaller percentage of the blood that reaches the brain actually gets used (totally guessing here) but your brain could still be getting more blood because so much more is reaching the brain in the first place? Just spitballing...

 

[adreno]

But does that take into account lack of cerebral blood flow from OI related causes? My understanding of all of this is very non-technical, but it seems like OI causes/can cause reduced blood flow reaching the brain (because it's pooling in the limbs/trunk), so vasoconstriction of the peripheral blood vessels can then increase blood flow to the brain. Maybe a smaller percentage of the blood that reaches the brain actually gets used (totally guessing here) but your brain could still be getting more blood because so much more is reaching the brain in the first place? Just spitballing...

You could be right about this. The studies with stimulant drugs were done with healthy people, so it hard to say what the net effect would be on a person with OI. Maybe it's more correct to say that stimulant drugs focuses the activity of the brain (and thereby the blood flow) in certain regions. Methylphenidate (ritalin) does help my POTS, but there is a massive crash when it wears off. The last time I tried it, it made me so sleepy I had to go to bed. So much for stimulants...

 

[penny]

You could be right about this. The studies with stimulant drugs were done with healthy people, so it hard to say what the net effect would be on a person with OI. Maybe it's more correct to say that stimulant drugs focuses the activity of the brain (and thereby the blood flow) in certain regions. Methylphenidate (ritalin) does help my POTS, but there is a massive crash when it wears off. The last time I tried it, it made me so sleepy I had to go to bed. So much for stimulants...

So many complex interrelationships with our different issues and symptoms!

I definitely find that stimulants can be unreliable, and if I'm too sick already, or the dosage is too high, or I tried taking them too many days in a row, that they can make me feel more tired and sick. So for me at least, its one of those things that seems to help but only in very specific circumstances.

But if I'm careful, the benefit of having my brain work better for a day or two, is very worth it for me. I don't know for sure, but I feel like it helps me keep my head just above water at work, which is huge.

 

[DaiWelsh]

I take Nuvigil which is the newer form of Provigil, supposedly Nuvigil is the same as Provigil minus an atom that is associated with side effects. Both have been effective, It gives me about 70-80% for about six hours. I never feel overstimulated as I might if I drink too much caffeine. It makes me feel closer to "normal" than I usually do and don't get a rush or high from it. No side effects except occasionally a mild headache when I first started on the medication.

It's not exactly a stimulant as it goes to the part of the brain that improves alertness/sleepiness. I find I can concentrate better. Surprisingly, it also helps with the pain. My doctor said this is because like an ADD medication is tones down the extraneous firing of the nervous system which causes pain for a lot of us.

Keep in mind that this is my experience and others might have different reactions.

Barb C.

Thanks for that Barb, - I have just started trying modafinil (provigil) on my work days and it is having a huge positive effect so far. Do you remember what dose you tried? I tried one tablet (200mg/ug?) at first but it didn't seem to work so I tried two which is the maximum recommended dose and that has worked.

Are you sure about nuvigil being the newer form of provigil? From my quick google they are described as different types of drugs but I am out of my depth with the technical details.

Is it the newer version in a marketing sense only or is it really a very similar drug? Just in case I have side-effects as I experiment further with modafinil.

 

[barbc56]

Provigil has a different dosage than Nuvigil. For Provigil it's 200 mg. For Nuvigil, it's 150 mg. I do like the Nuvigil but didn't get that many side effects from the Provigil. It really helps but there are times I take it and can sleep eight or more hours even after a good nights sleep. Several things I remember from my doctor are that increasing the dosage you get the effect of diminishing returns.

Nuvigil is more expensive than Provigil. For me the Nuvigil. Basically, they are the same except Nuvigil is missing Nuvigil was marketed when Provigil's patent was about to expire. It's a tricky marketing move. I guess I shouldn't be surprised about that.

So the people at Cephalon were starting to worry about their patent on Provigil because there were a number of lawsuits pending from generic drug manufacturers eager to get the rights to sell it. And it turns out that Provigil does have two isomers. In this particular case, they are both active, but one is eliminated from the body much more quickly than the other, so essentially the activity really comes from one isomer. Hence the development of Nuvigil, the longer-acting isomer formulation of Provigil.

http://www.everydayhealth.com/blog/...ical-news-you-can-use/old-drug-with-new-name/

This tells the difference between the two which is basically very little as far as effects but I find it much more subtle than the Provigi and it does last a bit longer. It's really hard to describe the difference but for me it's worth the extra expense. I get a discount which at first was free and is now $10.

http://www.diffen.com/difference/Nuvigil_vs_Provigil.

I hope this helps. If you need more sites about sleep, I can certainly post those.I wrote this in a hurry as I wanted to get back to you ASAP.

Good luck.
Barb

 

[mtnbibliophile]

My adderall (amphetamine salts) is my all-time favorite CFS medication of many that I have tried (Valcyte made me sicker, and not just because of Herxing). Cut right through the brain fog, but even though my doctor knows to my medication dosages low because of CFS, I still had to cut it down twice more. Loved the brain power of 10 mg, but couldn't sleep and I would get TOO focused - get involved in something and not realize that 6 hours had gone by before I look up from the computer. 5 mg - a subclinical dose - has improved my brain fog considerably and not affected my sleep. As a general rule, I have found that it's a good idea if BEFORE YOU GIVE UP ON A DRUG, TRY TAKING IT AT A MUCH LOWER DOSAGE.

 

[Soundthealarm21]

Hi,

I don't have ADHD but an autonomic specialist gave me an extremely low dose of adderall to improve circulation to the brain. At a very low dose, I didn't get that hyper-focus, just something that imitated normal attentiveness. But I don't like to take amphetamines so I rarely take any now.

I also took strattera, but because it can treat OI effectively for a percentage of us. For me it nearly took it away. But again, I only took it for a couple of years because my OI got better and I didn't want to take any drugs that weren't essential.

Sushi

Sushi,

Just curious. When you took adderall at a low dose how much did you take?

 

[Sushi]

Sushi,

Just curious. When you took adderall at a low dose how much did you take?

As I remember, it was under 5 mgs.

Sushi

 

[Soundthealarm21]

As I remember, it was under 5 mgs.

Sushi

Did you have a hard time sleeping with that amount or was it out of your system by bed time?

 

[Sushi]

I took it in the morning so it was out of my system.

Sushi