Adenosylcobalamin

[Banana94]

Hello,

does anyone know where to find Adenosylcobalamin injection? In powder or bulb?

Thank you in advance

Benjamin

Where are you from Benjamin?

 

[Banana94]

Hello,

does anyone know where to find Adenosylcobalamin injection? In powder or bulb?

Thank you in advance

Benjamin

I got AdenoB12 from the Arnika Apotheke in Munich (Germany) as far as I knoe they also ship to other countries. They have drops and shots (for injection) and maybe more.
Contact: Arnika Manufaktur

 

[benxwz]

I got AdenoB12 from the Arnika Apotheke in Munich (Germany) as far as I knoe they also ship to other countries. They have drops and shots (for injection) and maybe more.
Contact: Arnika Manufaktur

I live in France. I have just received the answer from Arnika Apotheke. They offer me adenosyl ampoule in 1ml or 10ml. I hope it's good for injection, I'll order! Thank you

 

[GreenMachineX]

@Learner1
I’m confused with the AdenoslyB12. Does it convert to Methyl-b12 when needed or does it provide totally separate functions? Let’s say I have no genetic polymorphisms, would it provide all the benefits of any b12 as needed if that’s all I took?

 

[Learner1]

A methylcobalamin supplement should serve most of your needs.

Methylcobalamin is the form of B12 that your body uses. It doesn't require converting to be used in general, except within the mitochondria, which use adenosylcobalamin.

The adenosylcobalamin interacts with an enzyme called methylmalonyl CoA mutase, a metabolic enzyme, and is used to promote the function of the Krebs cycle, good for those of us with impaired energy production.

Adenosylcobalamin is the least stable of the four types of B12 outside the human body and doesn't work well in tablet or capsule based supplements.

The other kind of B12 you might need is hydroxycobalamin, which would help if you have a peroxynitrite problem, as I do. I take some HB12, but about a 1:6 ratio of it to HB12.

 

[GreenMachineX]

@Learner1
Well, methylcobalamin at doses higher than 150mcg at a time give me histamine surges and more than 250mcg total daily mess with my sleep. I’m trying to figure out a way to provide the Methyl groups for healing with either methylfolate or folinic acid without adding more methylcobalamin. I’ve read all about taking more Methyl B12, but I need my sleep and that histamine surge is rough. Can Hydroxocobalamin provide what’s needed instead of methylcobalamin without mthfr mutations?

 

[alicec]

You should take the form of B12 that you tolerate best.

All forms of B12 are processed when taken into the cell. The upper axial ligand (the methyl, hydroxy, adenosyl, cyano group) is removed and the cobalamin is then directed to the two B12 dependant enzymes (MTR and MUT) according to need. The appropriate ligand - methyl or adenosyl - is added at the enzyme site.

Theoretically it shouldn't matter what form of B12 is taken since all are processed in the same way. Nevertheless, some people do report different response to different forms. The basis of this is not understood. Possibly it reflects individual differences in rate of uptake and/or processing of the different forms.

 

[GreenMachineX]

@alicec
That’s great to hear. I’ll try upping my Adenosylcobalamin tomorrow to maybe 500mcg to go with my 100mcg methylcobalamin and 400mcg folinic acid. Methylfolate even at doses of 200mcg makes my muscles so tight and cramped it brings out all my previous weight lifting injuries. I’m almost positive adding more methylcobalamin would take care of that but like I’ve said, the negatives. Hopefully this Adenosylcobalamin tablet is stable enough to provide benefits. If not, guess I’ll be trying HydroxyB12 next.

 

[Learner1]

@Learner1
Well, methylcobalamin at doses higher than 150mcg at a time give me histamine surges and more than 250mcg total daily mess with my sleep. I’m trying to figure out a way to provide the Methyl groups for healing with either methylfolate or folinic acid without adding more methylcobalamin. I’ve read all about taking more Methyl B12, but I need my sleep and that histamine surge is rough. Can Hydroxocobalamin provide what’s needed instead of methylcobalamin without mthfr mutations?

I'm not convinced MB12 is your problem. These are common causes of histamine intolerance:

• Nutrient deficiencies (vitamin C, B1, B2, B5, B6, folate, B12, zinc, copper, methionine)
• Excess histidine
• Antibiotics, antacids and antihistamines
• Pathogens which produce histamine or block methylation
• Irritants - pollen, mold, chemicals
  
• Hormone imbalances
• Lifestyle - too much stress, alcohol, insomnia
• Diet - fermented foods, aged cheese, other high histamine foods
  
• Leaky gut

Adding in the MB12 without its cofactors in the methionine cycle (B2, B6, magnesium), aminos to make glutathione (glutamine, glycine, NAC), or transsulfuration cofactors (B1, molybdenum) could cause problems.

Having adequate B5 and vitamin C helps to flush allergens out.

I was able to reduce my histamine a lot by these strategies without a low histamine diet, just avoiding foods I'm allergic to.

Additionally, you may also want to look into MCAS, which many of us have. In that case, quercetin or curcumin might help, as well as mast cell meds.

 

[Learner1]

Hydroxycobalamin is not the same as methylcobalamin. As alicec said, many of us do not convert. We need to methylate - it is critical for immune function, neurotransmitter production, and proper replication of DNA.

Hydroxocobalamin is useful for reducing peroxynitrites, so that is why you woukd esnt to take it. Otherwise, adjusting your protocol do you can tolerate methylcobalamin would be advisable.

 

[GreenMachineX]

@Learner1
Well, I’m taking a multi and have taken several different ones with varying degrees of those nutrients so I’d like to believe it’s not a nutrient deficiency.

I am suspect of Candida though, especially because I have angular cheilitis that won’t quit. If I use chamomile for a couple days it begins to heal but I get weird shortness of breath and palpitations side effects (Herx?). Apple Cider Vinegar also gives me bizarre symptoms like overstimulation, breathing abnormalities, internal buzzing/tremors (Herx also?). When I use 1 cap of life extensions 2 Per Day at 1 cap a day, the angular cheilitis heals but I get flutters at night and insomnia. This multi also has apigenin like chamomile does so I’m wondering if that’s what’s going on there. The weird thing with all of this is I have zero digestive issues, just some bloating and water retention when using the wrong multi (or maybe it’s not the wrong one, just not ready for it yet?).

Peppermint tea has also given me excess stimulation and insomnia oddly enough. Maybe the neurotoxins produced from these anti-Candida herbs and supplements stimulate my brain and cause the other symptoms other places?

 

[alicec]

Hydroxycobalamin is not the same as methylcobalamin. As alicec said, many of us do not convert.

Not quite. If we take methylcobalamin, it is not used directly. Instead, once taken into the cell, the methyl group is removed and the cobalamin is directed to MTR and MUT according to need. A methyl group is added at MTR and adenosyl at MUT.

Other forms such as hydroxy are processed in the same way. The fate of the cobalamin is not influenced by the original ligand on the cobalamin since the first processing step is its removal.

In other words, all forms are theoretically equivalent.

It is not clear why some people respond differently to different forms, but it is likely to reflect individual differences in uptake and/or processing - ie removal of the upper axial ligand - not "that we can't convert". There is no direct conversion. The critical step after uptake is removal. This is done by MMACHC, the enzyme that goes wrong in cblC disease.

The only study that I am aware of that specifically addressed the mechanism for different responses to different forms compared only hydroxy and cyano. It looked at known MMACHC variant proteins and showed that the defective variants were better able to bind the hydroxy form and hence were more efficient in removing the upper axial ligand.

The cyano form did not bind as well to MMACHC, the cyano group was not removed and so the cobalamin was unable to be used by the cell. This was the basis of the more favourable response of the patients from whom the variant MMACHC proteins were derived to hydroxyB12 compared with cyanoB12. The critical event was the efficient removal of the upper axial ligand.

Possibly there is more individual difference in MMACHC binding than we are aware of and so the reason that some forms are better for some people is that their MMACHC is better able to remove the upper axial ligand from that particular form.

Of course differences in initial uptake from the gut or from the blood may also be relevant. We just don't have the studies yet to explain it all.

 

[Learner1]

...so, it is best to take the one you need for the job you want it to do as you can't be certain what your body is doing vs anyone else's.

 

[alicec]

...so, it is best to take the one you need for the job you want it to do as you can't be certain what your body is doing vs anyone else's.

You seem to miss the point that the form of cobalamin we ingest has no influence on the different cobalamin functions within the cell. It is not used directly so it cannot affect any particular job we might want it to do.

All forms are immediately processed to an identical intermediate. The cell then determines how to allocate the cobalamin pool. By supplementing with any form, we are simply augmenting the general cobalamin pool.

There is good evidence that the cyano form is less effective, but apart from that, the forms are equivalent. Therefore individual tolerability along with stability of the preparation, convenience and price become the selection criterion.

Although I haven't seen particular studies on this, the fact the methylB12 is the predominant form in blood might be a good point in favour of this form for supplementation - provided it is tolerated of course. This is the form that the cell is most used to processing and there is certainly evidence that the MMACHC protein processes this form more efficiently than others.

 

[Learner1]

You seem to miss the point that the form of cobalamin we ingest has no influence on the different cobalamin functions within the cell. It is not used directly so it cannot affect any particular job we might want it to do.

All forms are immediately processed to an identical intermediate. The cell then determines how to allocate the cobalamin pool. By supplementing with any form, we are simply augmenting the general cobalamin pool.

There is good evidence that the cyano form is less effective, but apart from that, the forms are equivalent. Therefore individual tolerability along with stability of the preparation, convenience and price become the selection criterion.

Although I haven't seen particular studies on this, the fact the methylB12 is the predominant form in blood might be a good point in favour of this form for supplementation - provided it is tolerated of course. This is the form that the cell is most used to processing and there is certainly evidence that the MMACHC protein processes this form more efficiently than others.

As you yourself have said, at least twice, on this very thread, for various reasons, people may absorb the various forms differently.

 

[GreenMachineX]

Well, I’ve tested the Adenosylcobalamin twice at 250mcg sublingual and it feels significantly better than methylcobalamin. Also using creatine HCL and MSM for additional Methyl donors and I’m pretty sure the angular cheilitis is healing. So far so good, but i still get that bizarre shortness of breath and palpitations in the morning. It takes the adenosylcobalamin way to long to kick in. I’m going to stop the MSM for a day because it may be hurting, not helping.

 

[Learner1]

Any way you could get a comprehensive nutrient test done? Like a Genova Diagnostics NutrEval or a Great Plains OAT test, and an iron panel?

This article discusses riboflavin and iron deficiencies, as well as others, with angular chelitis.

I'm glad the adenosylcobalamin seems to be working better for you, however that's a really low dose of B12. Have you had your methylmalonic acid checked to see if you need B12?

Another thought is that many people think they don't tolerate B12 when they actually need it, but taking it starts to metabolize stored toxins, which create the unpleasant symptoms. It can be useful to understand if you have heavy metal or other toxicity, as well as the status of all nutrients needed in detoxification.

 

[GreenMachineX]

@Learner1
Had some iron labs just done. Shouldn’t be iron deficient with those numbers?

I will get 1 of those nutrient evaluations done eventually. Just watching finances right now and $400 is steep...

 

[AngelM]

I am so impressed with the knowledge of many of our members. What I’ve read here is totally new information for me, and my brain cells are spinning. It will take a bit for me to research this topic, but you have pointed me in the right direction. Thank you.

 

[GreenMachineX]

Any way you could get a comprehensive nutrient test done? Like a Genova Diagnostics NutrEval or a Great Plains OAT test, and an iron panel?

This article discusses riboflavin and iron deficiencies, as well as others, with angular chelitis.

I'm glad the adenosylcobalamin seems to be working better for you, however that's a really low dose of B12. Have you had your methylmalonic acid checked to see if you need B12?

Another thought is that many people think they don't tolerate B12 when they actually need it, but taking it starts to metabolize stored toxins, which create the unpleasant symptoms. It can be useful to understand if you have heavy metal or other toxicity, as well as the status of all nutrients needed in detoxification.

@Learner1
Would one of those nutrient tests or the 23andme be more valuable?