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Adenosylcobalamin and increased malaise anyone?

Discussion in 'Detox: Methylation; B12; Glutathione; Chelation' started by Lilmaz, Aug 2, 2016.

  1. Lilmaz

    Lilmaz

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    Has anyone experienced this or does someone know the underlying mechanism?
    I started off on b12 with hydroxy & separate adenosyl lozenges. I noticed after the adenosyl a drop in energy but thought it was really odd. My ND gave me a lozenge that's 4000mcg methylcobalamin and 1000mcg adenosylcobalamin. Feel ok on 1 lozenge but 1.5 leaves me very fatigued in the body, achey. Feels just like PEM?
     
  2. Chocolove

    Chocolove Tournament of the Phoenix - Rise Again

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    What brands are you taking?
     
  3. alicec

    alicec Senior Member

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    Sounds like it could be need for methyl folate. Are you taking this?
     
  4. Lilmaz

    Lilmaz

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    Yes I was having 400mcg (this morning just 200mcg then planned another 200mcg at lunchrume), I wondered if I needed more methylcobalamin (have MTR/MTRR snps) to go with it or try more folate. Can't increase it without increasing the adb12 though. Quite dizzy, nauseas & tired from the folate. My appetite swings with the b12 & folate. Goes up with b12, down with folate. Wondering about paradoxical or donut hole probs?
    The dizziness is like brain zaps coming off SSRI.
     
  5. Lilmaz

    Lilmaz

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    Seeking health b complex plus & lozenge.
    Complex says Quatrefolate
    Just arrived on my doorstep is solgar methylfolate 800mcg & SN FMN. Kicking myself I didn't order mb12 as well.
     
  6. Chocolove

    Chocolove Tournament of the Phoenix - Rise Again

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    Lilmaz likes this.
  7. Lilmaz

    Lilmaz

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    Thanks @alicec I took 400mcg of the solgar metafolin and feel bit better in terms of fuzzy head and irritability. Won't take more lozenge due to the adb12 but I do have some mb12 spray. Maybe better to try few days with the metafolin before upping the mb12.
    I did see quite an academic response on here somewhere about excess adb12 acidifying your tissues but can't find it now.

    I have been using this b complex for a while but alongside a multi that contains 800mcg food-source folate. After reading more on PR I decided to try separating the b complex from the multi by several hours. Suddey I had all these side effects from the b complex which made me think maybe need more b12 (hence taking 1.5 & feeling rubbish). But sounds like I set things in motion and needed more active folate? Should I go beyond 800mcg if feels ok?
     
  8. alicec

    alicec Senior Member

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    Yes - people on PR have taken 30-50 mg amounts at times. It is very common to find your need for folate increases when you start taking active B12s. You may need to keep adjusting the dose.

    The increased need for folate probably indicates an increased need for B2 which is used by the MTHFR enzyme to recycle folate. So you may also need to pay attention to B2.

    Part of your problem could be just that the lozenge dose of 4 mg MeB12 and 1 mg adoB12 was just too high to start with. You might need to start with a small fraction of that and build up slowly.

    Of course you might have particular problems with the ado also. This is one of the problems with starting with a mixture. It is fine if all goes well but if there are problems you don't know what is causing what.

    Ideally it would be good to try the two B12s separately, but in the meantime you could just try 1/4 lozenge (or even less ) with a reasonable dose of folate and see what happens.

    If that is ok you could try adding the same dose again a couple of hours later.
     
  9. Lilmaz

    Lilmaz

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    Well @alicec I took the 1st metafolin at noon, by 2pm thought i felt well enough for the gym, then the other 400mcg at 3pm (with potassium, mag, cal etc). By 3.30 I felt like a million bucks. My ND is maybe basing her knowledge off the likes of Walsh (Nutrient Power) where it says undermethylated persons respond poorly to folate. Or maybe is a honeymoon period...
    I started that mth/ado lozenge in Feb at a 1/4 then half then whole then 1.5 during my luteal phase at my N'S instruction but I felt very unwell and washed out & ill during my period. I didn't replace after finishing the jar as the weakness and nausea during my period bothered me like I was throwing something way off.
    I wasn't having any metafolin, just what was in B Minus and Garden Life women's multi. No extra potassium.
    Restarted the lozenge a fortnight ago as I've been going downhill last 3mths but did not ignite me like it did in Feb. Felt pretty average so added ALCAR, good then average, tried TMG, very average.
    The b complex makes me a bit anxious and stressy I thought it was the Quatrefolic, but the metafolin feels the opposite. Calm, balanced, productive. Wish I'd had the nerve to try it sooner.
    Seemed I forgot the B2 FMN in the order, was really unwell when I made it, will get some b12. Is the general consensus still Jarrow?
     
  10. alicec

    alicec Senior Member

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    I've noticed that sublingual FMN seems more potent than the swallowed version, even though the dose is apparently lower. Look for the Source Naturals sublingual.

    The most reliable methylB12 sublingual seems to be the Enzymatic Therapies B12 infusion - 1 mg lozenge.
     
    Lilmaz likes this.
  11. Lilmaz

    Lilmaz

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    I've been doing OK with the supps but quite variable. But today am flushing a lot, not totally unusual around high estrogen phases of my cycle but this is the worst it's been in several months. Am uncomfortable/breathless/panicky. I don't understand as I'm taking in a lot of methyl I thought but high histamine suggests undermethylated.
    @alicec does this indicate need for still more mfolate or perhaps reduce b12 instead as methyl trapped? Or am is the need for more B2 now urgent.
    My sleep seemed better with more b12/less mfolate but really it's early days.
    Am trying to find a practitioner to help & do testing as I'm finding this difficult to traverse like I'm blind in the dark.
     
  12. alicec

    alicec Senior Member

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    That is to be expected.

    Unfortunately this can only be determined empirically. You'll just have to experiment with each and note your response.

    There are lots of threads on PR which endlessly discuss the ins and outs of methylation protocols. I made a post recently which links some and summarises various approaches.
     
  13. Lilmaz

    Lilmaz

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    Thank you for that link. I have searched and searched and read and read but some of it is like needle and haystack. I'm accustomed to searching databses for uni but I rarely find what I need in here, I wish there were more stickies!
     
    Last edited: Aug 7, 2016

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