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AdenosylB12 intake == boost in testosterone?

Discussion in 'Detox: Methylation; B12; Glutathione; Chelation' started by gu3vara, Jan 12, 2012.

  1. gu3vara

    gu3vara Senior Member

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    I'm wondering about this, I introduced adenosylb12 a week ago and I had signs of much better functioning down there, when waking up in the morning especially, something I didn't have in a long time. I had them when I was taking testosterone, which I stop because I didn't feel any better and didn't want to become infertile.

    Methyl and hydroxy didn't do that, but I was taking them together for a couple months, never tried methyl only. I'm now on methylB12 and adenosyl.

    Interesting, is it a known thing that adenosyl influence sex hormones?

    Anyway, I'm happy right now, hope it will last :D
     
  2. Freddd

    Freddd Senior Member

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    HI Gu3vara,

    It is documented that low b12 causes a drop in testosterone. The form is unspecfied as b12 deficiency is considered to be all 1 thing, except here. We are the only ones making these distinctions. I would very much like the answer. I am inclined to think that it is a combination myself. The ancient Tantric meal in vegetarian countries included beef, fish and whole grain dish providing mostly adb12, some methylb12, omega3 oils, meat folate, high quality protein and b-complex plus many other things. I've had reports from quite a few men about these beneficial results. I also think that methylfolate may be an influence as well. Don't rule out the omega3s either. That is most excellent news. If it stops suddenly along with an increase of other symptoms, consider an induced deficiency of some sort.
     
  3. Anteah

    Anteah Senior Member

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    I know this is an old thread but I was looking to the answer to the same thing. Upon increasing my Adb12 I have noticed that my skin started breaking out as if my testosterone levels increased.
     
  4. Freddd

    Freddd Senior Member

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    Hi Anteah,

    Actually the thin evidence is that it affects all sorts of hormones. This is just sort of incidental information from very limited studies, mostly in animals. However, a more common cause of acne when taking active b12s is an induced methylfolate deficiency. Lack of mb12,adb12 and Methylfolate combine to destroy most sexual funtioning and fertility and is known to casue hormone problems in women. The acne is usually the fastes response to a lack of active b12 and/or methylfolate. It can indicate onset of paradoxical folate deficiencyt merely from not having enough folate to maintain the cell formation rate. As you increase methylfolate, if thwat is the casue, the acne will subside rapidly. Also, hydroxcbl can cause acne in several days ans light damaged mb12 or adb12 also have enough hydroxcbl to casue acne. It's not as plaincut as it might look. Get rid of hycbl, folic acid, folinic acid, whey, glutathione, NAC and then try increingse methylfolate. If that works iot takes the sting or itch out of the lesions in hours and they subside in 3 days with the right combination. This is based on my own experience and others with that problem.. Adb12 and mb12 tend to NORMALIZE things. However, people are not used to the rate at which that can happen. Wheatley's "gianat gorilla" adenosylcobalamin paper indicates it is "radically" more effective and appears to be the "normal" mode and the hycbl appears to be the starvation workaround for lacking the active b12s. In that paper she also quotes from a paper indicating improved erectile functioning in rats from adenosylcbl.
     
  5. Crux

    Crux Senior Member

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    Hi ;
    The mb12 did increase my testosterone. Sometime between '09-'12, my free T increased 1point, and my bioavailable T went up 3 pts. This is a notable amount for a 55 yo female.
    I'm still not able to take adob12, (insomnia), but I hope to be able in the future-- it does increase energy.
    Some people have written that their acne was temporary, and healed in time.
     
  6. Freddd

    Freddd Senior Member

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    Hi Crux,

    Yes, AdoCbl is energizing becasue it gets the mitochondria working properly. That affects neurological activity, mood, muscle activity, muscle growth and also remyelination of damaged nerves. It also reduces inflamation quite thoroughly. TMG often takes the "stimulation" edge off thew AdoCbl.
     
  7. Crux

    Crux Senior Member

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    Thanks Freddd;
    I'll try adding TMG with the AdoCbl. I'm just beginning to tolerate it better, so I'll try your micro-titration method as well.
    Since some people have commented that the AdoCbl has increased their libido, I wonder if it may be more involved with the increase in testosterone.
    There doesn't seem to be any reports about this, but it looks like a viable idea to me.
    Thanks Again...
     
  8. Freddd

    Freddd Senior Member

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    Hi Crux,

    I have observed that for most people there is a certain amount of overlap in functionality as the body can change some of each type to the other, but far from complete need being met for most for either. For ccomplete b12 funtionality a person needs both kinds.
     
    Crux likes this.
  9. Anteah

    Anteah Senior Member

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    Thanks, Fred! I should probably increase my methylfolate, will see if that helps. Adb12 has been a miracle lately though so even with some minor skin issues it is not something I ever plan to stop taking. I did have a startup, detoxing some major stuff, heavy metals included but now, I feel almost normal some days. It is truly very unexpected. I can't thank you and Rich and this forum enough for having all this useful info around, easily accessible and for free. I am a different person from what I was 6 months ago, methylation is a life changer!
     
  10. Freddd

    Freddd Senior Member

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    HI Anteah,

    Did you take potassium to stop the startup hypokalemia? That is what is normally called "detox". Make sure you have plenty of potassium on hand beforwe you titratrate the methylfolate. The rate of healing will probably increase all the way up until the temporary folate deficiency symptoms go away. Typically peoplle need 2000-3000mg a day of [otassium to relieve the very specific low potassium symptoms. A person finds out typically with the first dose or two that potassium can make a big difference.
     
  11. Anteah

    Anteah Senior Member

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    Hi, Fred! Yes I've been taking lot of potassium since I started taking B12, but still had metal taste in my mouth, excitotoxicity and low bile production which I can only attribute to B12 raising glutathione which in turn started pulling heavy metals from my cells. I am sure everyone experiences with start-up are different but prior to this summer I was a pescaterian for 10 years, so I am sure eating nothing but seafood got me pretty toxic with heavy metals, given that due to my methylation issues I was most likely barely eliminating any of them. I was not even aware of that aspect until I started with B12, and started experiencing these detox symptoms that lead me to researching and coming to conclusion it must be mercury coming out. Have never been into chelation before, and can't say that I am now, but from what I read once methylation is restored toxins and heavy metals chelate themselves out of the body, and by the diffusion method eventually out of a brain as well. So my main task is to get methylation working as best as I can. My only wish is that Doctor's Data methylation test was cheaper. It is not very practical to spend $125 every time you change or tweak something.
     
  12. erist

    erist

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    I started getting morning erections again after adding ADB12, but I also added DHEA and HCG injections at the same time (and had a doubling of my testosterone levels) so I couldn't say which one of those was the prime helper.
     
  13. Freddd

    Freddd Senior Member

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    HI Anteah,

    A few years ago I built a model based on the best serum info I could find on methylmercury clearance. First, IF, and that is a modestly big if, IF mb12 cuases a methylation of mercury, it is at a very low rate. THink about this a little. It takes 20-30mg of methylmecury to cause noticable symtpoms. To cause that michg mecury to go into serum in the blood would require 100% of 140,000 to 210,000 mcg of mb12 to cause that. It is setimated that we each have 2500-5000 mcg of b12 in the body, total, and only a fraction of it mb12. That would represent a lifetime of b12. Not likely to actually be doing as used. Howevewr, as 80% of mecury symptoms are the same as b12 defciency symptoms, not that sounds likely. 1mg of mercury can completely destroy the body's entire supply of mb12 that with mercury on board can NEVER be restored at natural rates. The serum halflife is 71 days for methylmercury. It is removed by the liver and excreted in the bile. To the extent mb12 actually can form methylmercury it is flused from the body. Now at 5mg injected daily with aqn estimated maximum 1% usage by mercury (99% excretion of mb12 unchanged in 24 hours), that would amount to about 7mcg of mercury a day. Now if you model that it can NEVER build up to even a couple of mg much less the 20-30mg needed to be noticing symptoms. Becasue of the slow speed, it can take years for MeCbl to clear the mercury out. Immobilizing with selnium works well. If all those theories actually worked the number of people with these problems would not be on a rapid uprise. You see almost nobody gets better and most don't know why if they do.

    People who are treated by those tests and others don't get well. It does not improve the strategy of what to do. "Improving" these rtest scores don't produce healing. Taking the Deadlock Quartet, AdoCbl, MeCbl, L-carnitine fumarate and l-methylfolate along with all needed support items, including selenium which immobilizes mercury has a much higher probability. However, getting all the induced deficiencies taken care of and balannced out is the very tricky part., becasue as you found, startup responses are all over the place.

    For me it turns out that I had or experienced induced deficiency or insufficiency in MeCbl, AdoCbl, l-methylfolate, potassium, SAM-e, zinc, TMG, Boron, l-carnitine fumarate, each of which it turns out have symptoms, with many of the startup symptoms being the newly worsened induced deficincy symptoms. Others included magnesium, calcium, Vit D, di-ribose, b1, b2, pathethine, p5p and no doubt some others. It's very complcated. Almost every incident called "deotx" is induced methylfolate deficiency and/or potassium deficiency or other induced deficiencies. The remaining x (small) percent are still unknown as to what is going on.

    Getting methylation going, only ONE function of the many of b12, and methylfolate, happen 3 days before the need for potassium and increased l-methylfolate. As it can take ALL 4 of the Deadlock Quartet to work fully becasue they are all mutually interdependent, it can increase in stages or not start at all until the last needed thing is in place. Additional SAM-e can often help as can D-ribose. Good luck. I'm preparing something on all the "shoes" worn by adenosylcobalamin IAdoCbl) and MeCbl (methylcobalamin).

    A metallic taste is common in those with paradoxical folate deficiency until all folate insufficiency symtpoms are elliminated by titrating the dose.
    .
     
  14. Freddd

    Freddd Senior Member

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    For all we know all of them. DHEA and Pregnenolone can both be helpful in the right balance. I really don't know about Hcg injections.
     
  15. Anteah

    Anteah Senior Member

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    Hi, Fred!

    I am somewhat new to this, and basically have been reading up on this a lot lately and am still discovering new things every day, so I may be wrong, but my understanding was that glutathione binds with mercury via it's sulfur groups, and it is not the same as methylation of mercury by methylb12 transfering it's methyl group to mercury. So I didn't mean that the mercury is methylated, I just meant that rising glutathione levels most likely promote an increased removal of mercury, other heavy metals and other toxins out of the body, being that it's main purpose it to detoxify. It is good news though that there is a low change of mercury being methylated, as I read some people are pretty afraid of that.

    Hi, Fred!

    I am somewhat new to this, and basically have been reading up on this a lot lately and am still discovering new things every day, so I may be wrong, but my understanding was that glutathione binds with mercury via it's sulfur groups, and it is not the same as methylation of mercury by methylb12 transfering it's methyl group to mercury. So I didn't mean that the mercury is methylated, I just meant that rising glutathione levels most likely promote an increased removal of mercury, other heavy metals and other toxins out of the body, being that it's main purpose is to detoxify. It is good news though that there is a low change of mercury being methylated, as I read some people are pretty afraid of that.
     
  16. triffid113

    triffid113 Day of the Square Peg

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    I take DHEA which definitely increases testosterone, and it only caused me to break out the first day I took it (not at all after that) so don't be scared off of taking a needed supplement for that reason. I have perceived in myself that it is the rise in testosterone (as opposed to the testosterone level itself) that causes the "testosterone side-effects" which are BOTH breaking out AND feeling incredibly horny.
     
  17. Anteah

    Anteah Senior Member

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    Yes, I agree, I noticed that as well. I broke out originally when I started increasing the dose of Adb12, but not since that time.
     
  18. EastWest

    EastWest

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    I have taken a small amount of testosterone by injection for the last year or two but on the active B12 protocol I am now having to reduce my dose significantly.
     
  19. Michael

    Michael

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    I recently discussed this w a friend (she also has FMS and fatigue and mood swings,etc) and she wonders if Fred's /Freddd's recommendation to NOT take whey also applies to raw, unpasteurized whey? thanks
     

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