Dr. Bateman answers IOM questions from the community: Part 2
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AdB12 weird response?

Discussion in 'Detox: Methylation; B12; Glutathione; Chelation' started by stridor, Sep 23, 2013.

  1. stridor

    stridor Senior Member

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    I hope that I can get my point across. I came here looking for answers to my remaining symptoms, the main one being brain-fog. At 20% of what it used to be - most of the time but sometimes worse.
    I am C677T ++ and that mfolate 800 - 1000 mcg daily
    I had a big improvement with mB12 injections 1 mg daily with some B vitamins (I call it my morning "B" sting).


    Following what I am learning here I started Ad B12 and it didn't do much. So I added carnitine and crashed on the second day. I will split the carnitine caps and try again next weekend. In the meantime, I continued with the adB12.

    So, today I am in a 3 1/2 hour yawn-fest meeting - you know the type - where you mind wanders all over the place. It dawned on me that adB12 was helping with that - as in able to concentrate. BUT - only while I had a chip in my mouth. 10 min after it was gone and I was losing track again. This improved focus occurred in the presence of brain-fog. That is the strange part. If you had asked me I would have told you the fog was different (had a weird pressure in my head) but that I was fogged. This is why I didn't pick up on it outside of the meeting setting.

    So now what? I have taken about 15 mg of adB12 today. Do I always keep a chip in my mouth? I thought with adB12 that I would just knock back a few until there were no more (+) returns and then only once every few days (?)
    How much of this stuff can I take? Or should I take if I am on 1 mg inj mB12 daily?

    Finally, (and thank-you for getting this far) can I become cobalt toxic from too much B12 or is the sky the limit?
    Thanks in advance for any help or stories about your AdB12 experience.
     
  2. stridor

    stridor Senior Member

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    OK. Today I went to work in the best shape in years in terms of brain-fog. Not hearing that there was any problems from respondents here, I kept pounding back the AdB12. Had a chip in my mouth most of the morning. At lunch I had dizziness. I had my first run-in with vertigo a month ago. It runs in my family with 4 siblings with some form of Meniere's or similar. This was not vertigo but it was more than a bit of dizziness. It was worse with head movement and I had some destabilization when I stood.
    I backed off the adB12 but think that dehydration was part of the problem...I drink less when I have a chip of B12 in my mouth all the time it seems.
    Feel better now but not back to baseline. Still dizzy when I move my head.
     
  3. stridor

    stridor Senior Member

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    Better today. Dizziness back to baseline. Didn't push as hard today with adB12. Sometimes it feels like I have stumbled onto the answer for me and brain-fog drops to 10% and at others it is back to 20%+ and I think that I am still missing a piece of the puzzle. Will introduce carnitine then eventually ubiquinol in small doses.
     
  4. stridor

    stridor Senior Member

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    So the above appears to be "start-up" symptoms only.
    Weird as I am on mB12 injections daily. I suppose that the enzyme that is supposed to convert MB12 to AdB12 is wonky. Haven't found the name of that enzyme yet. Anyway I am still responding to the AdB12 so I guess that means that I have yet to reach saturation.
     
  5. stridor

    stridor Senior Member

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    Today I have my "glutamate symptoms" increasing. These are anxiety, agitation and irritability. Nothing that I can't deal with but interesting as far as tracking progress goes.
     
  6. stridor

    stridor Senior Member

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    In case, as some have suggested that adb12 works best with carnitine, I'll introduce a bit. I am breaking my rules about how many things I am changing at once. Very hard to stick to this when certain supplements work in concert.

    Also, turning my focus back to choline. I have PEMT +- x 4 This one is for folate and choline transport and conversion of choline to pcholine. TYMS ++ that also is related to folate and choline somehow. MTHFD1 G1958A ++ that increases choline need. Because of these things I am supposed be a "bottomless pit" in terms of pcholine intake.

    In my recent purging of my pill line-up I decreased sunflower lecithin to 1 cap daily down from 4. Back up to 3 today.
     
  7. bigmillz

    bigmillz

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    Did you ever find a resolution to this? I'm finding I'm getting a bit of dizziness/vertigo type feeling with ~750mcg of adB12. Just started, and only on the 3rd day.
     
  8. stridor

    stridor Senior Member

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    Hi @bigmillz
    Wow! all the way back to Sept 2013. The first dose of adb12 was quite a lift. I remember thinking that I had finally found the last piece of the puzzle. It doesn't work that way though. After the shortage is filled you won't even notice taking it anymore.

    I took 8.6 mg a day for months along with about 30 mg mB12 sublingual and then I had my 2 mg mB12 by needle as well. This was as close as I could get to what Freddd was doing. He had a highly concentrated mB12 for injection that I couldn't get.

    After about a year of always having B12 in my mouth during my waking hours my tooth enamel started to deteriorate. It is not particularly strong to start with. There is citric acid in the sublingual tabs.

    Currently, I have to remind myself to take the adb12 as I am pretty much recovered and it doesn't seem to do anything that I can detect. But it has antioxidant activity so why not? I took 8.6 mg a day for about a year and then cut back to 8.6 mg a week. I am not taking about 2 mg weekly.

    Any effect from B12 be it mB12 or adb12 means that you need it. These two can convert back and forth and that you are reacting suggests that you are not doing this particularly well right now. It will take you longer to "fill your tank" at 750 mcg a day but you will.

    Cheers, brad
     
  9. bigmillz

    bigmillz

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    Thanks Brad, really appreciate the reply on such an old thread!

    I've noticed that everytime I introduce something new, there's that same effect, where I think I've solved it all, but then my body adapts. Oh well, it's good to make progress.

    Sounds like the dizziness subsided for you then, and you were able to go up in dosage. What brand of adB12 are you using these days?

    How did you work around the tooth enamel issue? I've been reading about this, and it does concern me. Sublingual instead?

    Thanks again!
     
  10. stridor

    stridor Senior Member

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    @bigmillz

    Yes, I have had many epiphanies along the way. I have a thread where I talk about some called, "motochondria, mercury, methylation, mycoplasma. After I started the thread I could have addded, "mast cell activation". I clearly have a preference for ailments starting with the letter "m".

    I didn't get dizziness. I had an overall improvement in function with less brain-fog. I couldn't wait until the next dose but the result was less. Within a few doses the change was imperceptible. I had read about the antioxidant effects related to the NO/ONOO cycle. Because of this I kept the dose high for the next year.

    My dose never changed. I had 8.6 mg sublingual tabs by Source Naturals that I would nip a piece from and spread through the day.

    Any change - good or bad - tells you that you are on the right track. The dizziness will subside I suspect and if it doesn't track down one of the senior members for input. Mitochondrial stores will be replenished at some point.

    For the tooth enamel I stopped sublingual mB12 and just kept the injectable which I am on today - 2 needles daily. The adb12 is still taken sublingual but I do not put in a dose at bedtime anymore. And I take less. I caught it early.

    cheers.
     
  11. bigmillz

    bigmillz

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    Appreciate your help again!

    Were you splitting up a new 8.6mg tab every day, or 1 tab split up for the week?

    There's definitely been change. Trying to stick through it this time around instead of getting impatient. The dizziness has actually improved which is awesome.

    I don't think I'm ready yet for any injectables, but how did you go about getting yours? Asked your Dr? I'm very, very wary of getting something like that online.
     
  12. stridor

    stridor Senior Member

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    @bigmillz
    For the first year, I split 8.6 into many little nibbles and had a piece on the go much of the day, high up in the buccal pouch. Then it was a tab per week and now I have to remind myself to take a bit each week...maybe 2 mg. I forget and it doesn't seem to do much. I'd stop but I still have quite a cache.

    I was super-sick and when my Dr heard that mB12 had "turned on the lights", he said, "I am going to make you feel even better. We'll set you up with injectable."
    I started with 3 per week and when I told him that sublingual was still adding a difference, he increased to daily. The more I took the better I felt and so I increased on my own to 2 injections a day.

    mB12 has to be protected from light and kept cool. I doubt getting it on line is going to work out.
     
  13. bigmillz

    bigmillz

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    I'd definitely consider asking my Dr...I may have to call him soon about Deplin anyways. The cost and hassle of taking multiple 1mg capsules through the day (somewhere around 8mg is working well for me) is getting a little annoying.

    Is the injectable form also methylcobalamin or something else?
     
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  14. stridor

    stridor Senior Member

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    The injectable is methylcobalamin. I mixed one mg with some B vitamins in the morning and just plain B12 before supper. I have never found anything to interfere with sleep so if I am out I just take the needle when I get home.

    (That is true for hydrocortisone and thyroid pills as well. I take a dose of each with my bedtime pills. They are not energizing.)

    I take the mthylfolate under the tongue. I never have been able to find the dose that works for me swallowing capsules, I quit somewhere around 9.
    Two years ago I was taking 2 or maybe 2 1/2....something like that, capsules a day. I just opened the capsule and poured it into the buccal pouch. I need less than a capsule a day now and right or wrong, I attribute all of this to my gut health.
    When I hear that people are taking ultra-high doses of folate it makes me suspect an absorption problem. If this is the case for you there is money to be saved.
    My ferritin is still 11 in spite of a year of supplementing. Vit D is always low in spite of supplementing and if you read my thread you know that I have to take more B2 than some people. I do not absorb things real well but I am better since I started the coconut kefir. It seems to be soothing and maybe even healing to my gut.
     

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