The 12th Invest in ME Research Conference June, 2017, Part 2
MEMum presents the second article in a series of three about the recent 12th Invest In ME International Conference (IIMEC12) in London.
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Actual "brain fog" caused by low choline, leading to low acetylcholine?

Discussion in 'Adrenal Dysfunction' started by drob31, Mar 28, 2017.

  1. drob31

    drob31 Senior Member

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    It seems that in a number of 'syndromes' and diseases including things like hypothyroidism, your choline levels are severely depleted. With that being said, it seems to me like the raw materials to make the "learning and focus" neurotransmitter acetylcholine are depeleted. I realize this won't fix anything but it may help cognition by increasing choline levels.

    Alpha GPC seems to be the most recommended. Thoughts?
     
  2. Mary

    Mary Senior Member

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    I've been taking soy lecithin for several years. I noticed my memory improving shortly (probably within a few weeks) after starting it - e.g., I love crosswords and noticed answers coming to me more quickly. Also, if I went to the store for a few things, I started remembering them better. Swanson's sells non-GMO soy lecithin. I know that soy is not the best choice, but I did try the sunflower lecithin once and I don't think I did as well on it.

    Alpha GPC is probably good but it's rather pricey ---
     
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  3. drob31

    drob31 Senior Member

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    Good to hear. How much do you take a day? Alpha GPC is more pricey but it seems to be more bioavailable as well.
     
  4. olegsel

    olegsel

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  5. Mary

    Mary Senior Member

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    This what I take: https://www.swansonvitamins.com/swanson-premium-lecithin-non-gmo-1200-mg-180-sgels

    I take 2 a day, one with breakfast and one with dinner. I had a family member take it as well and she noticed a difference too. It's $9.99 for this 180-count size and comes in a 90-count bottle for $5.99. The Alpha GPC could be more biovavailable, but the Swanson's product might do the trick. BTW, I don't have brain fog, but I've also been taking B12 for close to 20 years. I've often wondered why I don't have brain fog and the B12 may be part of the reason, I just don't know.
     
  6. kangaSue

    kangaSue Senior Member

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    Egg Yolk Lecithin is another option.
     
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  7. junkcrap50

    junkcrap50 Senior Member

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    You may want to look into the Driscoll Theory. My CFS doc just came across it and read several thousand pages of research papers confirming the science and how it connects to the mitochondria and CFS. (I don't know how exactly. I'm doing my own research on it now). But, the Driscoll Theory is that the acetylcholine levels are low and impaired, which greatly affets the vagus nerve, thereby affecting inflammation, immune, and energy controls.
     
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  8. drob31

    drob31 Senior Member

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    Would adding choline help? Also would need an acetyl group.
     
  9. arewenearlythereyet

    arewenearlythereyet Senior Member

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    I added 3 eggs a day for the choline around 9 months ago ....i think this has improved my foggy moments but I don't know for sure since I have been fiddling with my b12/methylation protocol and I know for sure that dramatically improved my brain fog/ cognitive stamina when I first started taking b12.
     
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  10. Techs

    Techs

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    I've never tolerated direct acetylcholine supplements like alpha GPC, or even ALCAR or alpha lipoic acid. This has been very puzzling, as these are widely recommended supplements. But I've been having some interesting results this past month with galantamine experimentation. Galantamine is not a direct supplement but it blocks cholinesterase (which deactivates acetylcholine), so it is thought of as cholinergic.

    The alpha GPC-type supplements have always brought on flu-like days, similarly to the way stims (other than caffeine) lead to flu-like symptoms. I still take low dosages of stims (such as dexmethylphenidate) when I absolutely have to accomplish something for an hour or two on a bad day. But I pay a big price when I do. The stim gets me through the activity but only with stress-type energy for two hours at most, leaving me fluey in bed the rest of the day. And I can never rely on the stim more than one or two days in a row.

    Amazingly, 4mg (half-dose) of galantamine not only gives me a little boost of better quality energy on its own, it also allows me to tolerate low-dose stims without the fluey effects. The energy still only lasts a couple hours (maybe a bit more), but it's much more mellow. Plus the stims have been effective even when I need to use them daily for a spell -- as long as they are combined with the galantamine.

    There's probably a lesson in all this, but I haven't figured it out yet.
     
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  11. Alvin2

    Alvin2 If humans were rational...

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    Its possible, i have tried a few supplements to no effect but never tried acetyl carntine back when i had money
    However if its really low it causes dementia like symptoms, so bear that in mind
     
  12. Hyperflux

    Hyperflux

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  13. kangaSue

    kangaSue Senior Member

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    That's actually the answer that you are looking for @Techs . Sometimes the problem is caused by the premature breakdown of acetylcholine rather than a lack of it and galantamine prevents that happening, as does Mestinon (pyridostigmine) which is one of the usual first line med Neurologist's turn to for Autonomic Neuropathy.
     
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  14. Techs

    Techs

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    Do you know, then, if I've been getting premature acetylcholine breakdown, whether this explains my flu-like reactions to direct supplementation? I.e., when I flood the zone with extra choline, where in the process does that start making me feel worse than when I take no acetylcholine supplements at all? Does all that extra broken-down acetylcholine pool up in some stagnant swamp, making my body feel infected?

    And, it seems like this problem should relate to the stimulant problem, since the reactions feel so similar. Either the stim is attempting to boost acetylcholine,flow, or a certain mechanism in my body is misfiring in a similar way. Regardless, the galantamine has a clear impact on my body's ability to tolerate the stims.
     
  15. kangaSue

    kangaSue Senior Member

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    @Techs Sorry, I don't know the answer to that. I only know that those meds stop the premature breakdown of acetylcholine where an antibody is involved such as in Myasthenia Gravis and that defects occur with acetylcholine signalling in some autoimmune conditions.
     
  16. drob31

    drob31 Senior Member

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    What do you think about sunflower lecithin?
     

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