Activ B6 - insomnia side effects

[aquariusgirl]

From Amy Yasko Pathways to Recovery:


"As mentioned, chronic bacterial infection also affects tryptophan breakdown, which is why those with chronic bacterial issues and CBS up regulations should limit intake of P5P. I’ve noted that in certain instances, the use of high dose B6 or P5P is not always helpful, and may cause overstimulatory or OCD type behaviors. While kynurenic acid is a calming neurotransmitter, it’s converted by B6 or P5P into quinolinic acid, which is an excitotoxin that can aggravate the nervous system. Increased levels of quinolinic acid have been implicated in Alzheimer’s disease and in excitotoxic damage of nerves. Quinolinic acid was found to be substantially elevated in patients with Borrelia burgdorferi (Lyme) infection and has been postulated that it contributes to the neurological and cognitive defects associated with Lyme disease"

 

[MacGyver]

Hi McGyver,
thanks for your reply.

Lab test about one year ago showed low B6. Tested again currently and B6 was in the normal range. But doc told me that doesn't matter as it sais nothing about if B6 is converted into its active form.



I am taking magnesium citrate, sometimes glycinate, sometimes threonate. And I feel no effect from it, neither positive nor any side effects. It does nothing for sleep and, despite taking magnesium, I sometimes have the twitching eyelids and cramping muscles going on. Maybe I am taking not enough?
And yes, sometimes I have issues with anxiety, but never without any reason. When I take B6 I am suffering from anyiety out of the blue.I am very dysregulated in general due to early childhood trauma so I guess my hpa axis is pretty overreacting. Not a good thing in combination with comt polymorphism!

Well a B6 blood test should be P5P/PLP, can you post the result and the reference range, that should help in figuring out if they tested P5P or not.

Well, no effect whatsoever but at the same time having the classic symptoms point to the magnesium not being absorbed. There are quite a few things that need to be present for it to be absorbed; boron, B2, B6 etc. Selenium being very important for it as well. Since you're running the risk of cancer and you're having thyroid issues I'd look into taking selenium and see what effect it has on the magnesium and your thyroid. Note of 'caution'; it'd be best to take it in a trace mineral blend but if you don't want to do that you have to take iodine along with it if I recall correctly but I can't give you any reference for that at the moment. You need enough iodine for the selenium not to have adverse effects on your thyroid. But if you have sufficient iodine in your body the selenium will have a positive effect on your thyroid. That's not to scare you away from it but knowledge is health.

Also; if you get any adverse effects to B6 try upping the magnesium since they work so closely together. Provided the above info helps with magnesium being absorbed in the first place that is.
I become angry and anxious when I don't take sufficient magnesium along with my P5P, but can't take magnesium without the P5P. It's the combo in the right dose that works.

From Amy Yasko Pathways to Recovery:


"As mentioned, chronic bacterial infection also affects tryptophan breakdown, which is why those with chronic bacterial issues and CBS up regulations should limit intake of P5P. I’ve noted that in certain instances, the use of high dose B6 or P5P is not always helpful, and may cause overstimulatory or OCD type behaviors. While kynurenic acid is a calming neurotransmitter, it’s converted by B6 or P5P into quinolinic acid, which is an excitotoxin that can aggravate the nervous system. Increased levels of quinolinic acid have been implicated in Alzheimer’s disease and in excitotoxic damage of nerves. Quinolinic acid was found to be substantially elevated in patients with Borrelia burgdorferi (Lyme) infection and has been postulated that it contributes to the neurological and cognitive defects associated with Lyme disease"

Nice, in theory... I have the 'major' CBS++ mutation and I currently have to take 200mg of P5P to be able to take 500mg of magnesium. And my blood P5P was double the top reference value... Like I said in my previous post; you can read up on everything as much as you want, it's only by experimenting that you know you need something to improve your health.
My latest 'discovery' is that I need to take calcium to balance out the magnesium I'm taking. If I'd follow the info out there with calcium inevitably leading to excitotoxicity I would now be stuck by being scared off of it.

 

[Hope78]

Hi McGyver,
sorry, I now have all my labtests. But not sure wearther this will be helpful or not

Well a B6 blood test should be P5P/PLP, can you post the result and the reference range, that should help in figuring out if they tested P5P or not.

B6 (whole blood/plasma): 24,3 mcg/l ref range (16,4-80,4) (about one year ago)

from now:

14,8 mcg/l (5-30)

These were two different labs and it's only marked as "b6", so I actually don't know which form it is.

Both values were, as I see now, in the normal range, the first a bit lower, the second quite normal.

My doc told my that means nothing because he assumes I am not able to convert B6 into it's active form (but as I seem to have enough glutathione I guess I can!).

I have also slightly elevated pyrols in my urine, suggesting an increased need of b6 and zinc I guess?

it'd be best to take it in a trace mineral blend but if you don't want to do that you have to take iodine along with it if I recall correctly but I can't give you any reference for that at the moment. You need enough iodine for the selenium not to have adverse effects on your thyroid. But if you have sufficient iodine in your body the selenium will have a positive effect on your thyroid. That's not to scare you away from it but knowledge is health.

Thanks for that advise, I am already takin iodine (it's in the upper range) and now added selenium!

I become angry and anxious when I don't take sufficient magnesium along with my P5P, but can't take magnesium without the P5P. It's the combo in the right dose that works.

That's interesting! I am taking very small amounts of B6 in the meantine (a small amount of activated B complex from Pure Encapuslations), sometimes adding a very small amount of liquid B6 (one drop is about 1,7 mg and I only take half of it).

I really hat all this experimenting with supplements, it's really stressing me out.

 

[GreenMachineX]

Great thread. I’ve been experimenting with p5p and have realized that I can’t handle 15mg or more or I get OCD/overstimulation and terrible insomnia. But it’s the kind of insomnia where I’m tired at bed time but wake up a couple hours later for hours. It’s been 3 days off the p5p and still have insomnia. How long should this last?