Choline on the Brain? A Guide to Choline in Chronic Fatigue Syndrome
http://phoenixrising.me/research-2/the-brain-in-chronic-fatigue-syndrome-mecfs/choline-on-the-brain-a-guide-to-choline-in-chronic-fatigue-syndrome-by-cort-johnson-aug-2005
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Acetylcholine caused crash

Discussion in 'Post-Exertional Malaise, Fatigue, and Crashes' started by Xander5, Feb 17, 2016.

  1. charlie1

    charlie1 Senior Member

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    @MissCB : In the past, I tried many things for POTS, 2 of them happened to be PP ingredients...thiamine and ALC. I didn't experience any significant changes but so many things have been tried and sometimes overlapping with other supps or meds so its difficult to say how the overall affect truly was of those supplements for dysautonomia. Certainly didn't help with the constipation though.
    I did recently try the Alpha GPC but will admit I didn't stick with it very long so I can't comment on any negative effects such as your tingling brain feeling. I stopped taking within a week b/c I was nervous of messing up my newly found 'success' of daily dosing with Mirulax and 1000 mgVit C powder.
    But when I had a few sudden cognitive impairment challenges last week (severe), the memory of my hell with POTS scared me so bad that I immediately thought of trying PP since Dr. Driscoll promotes it at her POTS Care clinic. It will arrive this weekend and I will try it right away. Hopefully no negative issues arise :)

    My stomach motility (gastroparesis) has been better since following the FODMAP diet (loosely) and starting a PPI for severe GERD but only Mirulax and at least 100mg Vit C /day help with the colonic inertia..constipation.
     
  2. MissCB

    MissCB

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    @charlie1 Thank you for your reply! I'm so glad you've had success. I'm curious to see how PP works for you. I've been trying to find reviews other than what's on Amazon and the testimonials on her site but really have not seen much, especially recently.

    I'm going to look into the FODMAP diet. My main problems are gastroparesis (have been gluten free 7 years and it used to help but no longer does), brain fog, dizziness, anxiety, inflammation, and fatigue so I think PP may be the perfect fit for me but am nervous due to the negative reviews of severe side effects I've seen a few times.
     
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  3. charlie1

    charlie1 Senior Member

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    @MissCB : Go figure..I've been good cognitively since those 2 episodes last week (yay!) so it won't be easy to discern if it's a help in that area. But I'll be able to tell by end of next week if (1) PP affected me negatively in any way and (2) if it helps with the C .. I don't intend to take my other 2 stand-by aids during the PP trial.
    I'll be in touch...
    Take care. :)
     
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  4. MissCB

    MissCB

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  5. heyitisjustin

    heyitisjustin Senior Member

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    Does anyone (@DrDiana) know why thiamine would help the gut(motility/HCL) or POTS? I understand the rest of the PP ingredients but this one seems mysterious.
     
  6. Eastman

    Eastman Senior Member

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    Thiamine helps produce acetylcholine.
     
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  7. heyitisjustin

    heyitisjustin Senior Member

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    The people at longecity say that b5 does as well. Has anyone been helped by stacking b5 with their ACh supps?
     
  8. heyitisjustin

    heyitisjustin Senior Member

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    b5 was too stimulating for me
     
  9. joejack102

    joejack102 Senior Member

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    @Xander5

    I read your post about ParaSym and the Choline & Acetylcholine supplement you took.

    I had the EXACT SAME THING happen to me after taking a Choline supplement. Gave me insane fatigue and major symptoms for many years. I am still working at finding the "magic key" to reverse it completely.... And I think I've made some progress.

    Can you please respond to let me know how you are doing and what you ended up finding out in terms of how to reverse it?

    I had permanent long-lasting effects after using a Choline supplement just like ParaSym Plus.
     
    sb4 likes this.
  10. heyitisjustin

    heyitisjustin Senior Member

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    Choline's worked well for me but I'd assume you might have luck with an anticholinergic like an antihistamine.
    Does Benadryl help?
     
  11. joejack102

    joejack102 Senior Member

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    It does not. No. I’ve tried Benadryl and antihistamines many times and they made me feel awful every time. There is some other nutrient or ingredient involved with Choline in my opinion. Ever since taking Choline, I stopped being sensitive to medications so much so that meds don’t even work right anymore. And even worse, my fatigue more than doubled—permanently. Ever since. What other nutrient or ingredient in the body could have been thrown out of balance or related to Choline?
     
  12. percyval577

    percyval577 Knight

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    Schooljaar
    I´ve two more guesses, who knows.

    1. Via Acetylcholine (which on itself might not be of interest here) there should have increased Nitric Oxide (which is guessed to be responsible for the wide range of "typical" symptoms).
    And some lack of this Nitric Oxide then must have caused, somewhow, your former sensitivity. Nitric Oxide is used not only be nerves but by the immunesystem as well. There has not been much investigation as far as I know, how it by itself would influence other entities, Cytokines and so on.
    If I am remembering right, Nitric Oxide elevates PEG2, and very much PEG2 then lowers Nitric Oxide.

    So it might be even the opposite, and you had been high on Nitric Oxide. Anyway, it´s worth a try, but I have not written down the sources, leaving it to you right now. Furthermore there should be a positive feedback between Aetylcholine and Nitric Oxide, summing up two articles (I´ve put them in my Manganese thread, one is about Spinal Cord, but every time I guess things to be the same in my Brain, and only on a second guess, I would doubt it). Furthermore it might or rather should be that the research has not ruled out that these effects would go via Choline, which could be of special interest in your case.


    2. Well once more somehow via Acetylcholine. Finding it most important myself, I googled all the Metals and Acetylcholine, and found (once more, I havn´t written down the sources right now) that almost every Metal increases Acetylcholine despite Nickel.
    Its on my to do list. Chocolate pure (but it contains a lot of Manganese), Cashew, Pecan, they contain most, hoping to get the Nickel where no other of all these Metals then will increase my Acetylcholine anymore.
    I don´t know anything more about Nickel, what it would do with Herbs and Meds when it is in- or decreased.

    Good luck and best wishes (I am very slow right now, excuse me for anything stiff and what else)
     
    Last edited: Mar 4, 2018
  13. Cecco

    Cecco

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    Maybe the sensitivity to a cholinergic supplement comes from an organophosphate poisoning.

    OPs irreversibly inhibit AChE and can only be removed by reversible AChE inhibitors.

    But these released organophosphates (aka pesticides) can then cause the same symptoms as the original poisoning.

    http://www.pnas.org/content/103/35/13220
     
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  14. kallogann

    kallogann

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    everytime i tried a nootropic, i felt horrible. Naughty stuff. They usually tweak acetylcholine and glutamate.
     
    adambeyoncelowe likes this.

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