Invest in ME Conference 12: First Class in Every Way
OverTheHills wraps up our series of articles on this year's 12th Invest in ME International Conference (IIMEC12) in London with some reflections on her experience as a patient attending the conference for the first time.
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A report about anti-glycation supps Carnosine Beta-Alanine (=methylation?)

Discussion in 'Detox: Methylation; B12; Glutathione; Chelation' started by Gondwanaland, Mar 31, 2017.

  1. Kathevans

    Kathevans Senior Member

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    Boston, Massachusetts
    This sounds like a wild ride. Though the up side sounds enticing, I have to say! I'm in the middle of somethting right now, which I'll post on soon...after a bit of blood work returns and I can digest what it all means.

    The more I read, the less I understand!
     
  2. Gondwanaland

    Gondwanaland Senior Member

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    ANti-glycation supps chelate metals and minerals, among them calcium and copper. Completing the jigsaw, piece by piece.
    OTOH
     
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  3. Gondwanaland

    Gondwanaland Senior Member

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    And do you think this would impact metabolism differently?
     
  4. prioris

    prioris Senior Member

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    i haven't researched it but i would try the one used in most research - carnosine - before assuming they are the same. we can theorize about this or that but the quick and certain empirical method is by actually trying it sometime in the future. the symptoms appeared quickly on carcinine so one should know quickly too.
     
  5. Gondwanaland

    Gondwanaland Senior Member

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    I overreact to anything I take, just saying.
     
  6. Gondwanaland

    Gondwanaland Senior Member

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  7. prioris

    prioris Senior Member

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    i take it because i am aging and they say older people become deficient in it. rather be safe than sorry. carnosine for muscle i am less concerned about.

    >While elevated carnosine levels can be found in the serum of animals, humans seem to rapidly hydrolyze ingested carnosine. Consequently, supplementing with beta-alanine seems preferable to supplementing with carnosine.

    i don't remember the reason i chose carnosine over the other but it may have had to do with side effects. i don't remember.
     
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  8. Gondwanaland

    Gondwanaland Senior Member

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    Another "interesting" side-effect of stopping the anti-glycation sup is that calcium is going to wrong places ( @Violeta ) e.g., a callus is growing at the sole of my foot.

    Aren't we all? ;) For some people it starts earlier, according to the insults suffered. Interestingly it has been said before that people with ME tend to look younger than they really look (me incl.), but at what cost?

    Here is the Carnosine/Beta-Alanine pathway

    I see it intersects with pyrimidines, so a poor functioning glyoxylate pathway might explain why I have excess purines.

    It also intersects with oxalates
    OxalatesTowsendLetter.jpg
    Source
     
    Last edited: Apr 3, 2017
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  9. prioris

    prioris Senior Member

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    I always looked younger. no downfall in this. i knew some people age very quickly. they needed the varnosine and b1 real bad.

    my goal is to get healthier as I age.
    i aspire to become a paradox... lol ... oxalates tend to get associated with kidney stones. ... purines ... interesting

    on a side note,
    i'm going to do some liver cleaning with TUDCA sometime this week ... just recently having gallstones ,,, it will clean out my galbladder even better plus make my liver healthier
     
    Last edited: Apr 3, 2017
  10. Gondwanaland

    Gondwanaland Senior Member

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    I have just made 2 flushes in a row unintentionally after stopping the supplement... The 1st one with sulfites, and the 2nd one with phenols + boron + sulfites :ill: Feeling no improvement :thumbdown: more like run over by a truck :aghhh:
     
  11. Gondwanaland

    Gondwanaland Senior Member

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    Anti-glycation supplements reduce the RBC turnover. This led my RBC count from below range into the range, and my husband's from mid-high range to above the range.
     
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  12. Asklipia

    Asklipia Senior Member

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    Good for you! What about Mean Cell Volume?
     
  13. Gondwanaland

    Gondwanaland Senior Member

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    Good for me and bad for him :(

    My MCV is 92,5 fL (81,0 - 99,0 fL)
    His is 89

    Both seem normal

    Edit - BTW from my modest improvement in RBC count it is hard to know if it was an actual improvement or if I am still dehydrated from the past weeks vomiting sessions (sulfites phenols boron overload) thus increasing the [RBC]
     
    Last edited: Apr 5, 2017
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  14. Gondwanaland

    Gondwanaland Senior Member

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    Just like with K2-MK4, I felt the anti-glycation supplement increased the need for lysine. Yesterday I supplemented lysine with the following outcomes:
    - it seems to lower cortisol Reference, making it harder to get out of bed in the following morning if taken at night
    - it abolishes joint pain - by binding copper? Reference
    - odorless urine - while high arginine foods make for foul-smelling urine since starting on methylation supps
    - a bit of heaviness in members - forearms and calves - apparently it slows down kidney function and causes some edema (this is probably just me with impaired kidney function)

     
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  15. Gondwanaland

    Gondwanaland Senior Member

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    A comment by @keenly helped me to understand the common thread among the depletions in my blood levels caused by the anti-glycation supplement:
    • lowered thyroid hormones (raised TSH)
    • lowered estradiol
    • lowered calcitriol
    So the energy I got from it was due to improved phenol breakdown. It makes sense regarding the tiredness I had my whole life since a child in physical education class. My sister had it too.

    Additionally it also improved transsulfuration - or is it still phenol? - improved tolerance to sulfur foods... It apparently lowered my B1 though.

    Perhaps if I take it at a dosage of 3mg 2x weekly I could have improved energy? Or too dangerous side effects? One thing for sure, it helps me to increase my calorie intake since I tolerate almost everything... I was finally able to eat above 1,500 kcal
     
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  16. Gondwanaland

    Gondwanaland Senior Member

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    Extra lysine is definetly needed, looking for the right timing and dosage (guinea pig mode ON)

    (I don't take this particular brand)

    I like that: @prioris
     
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  17. Oberon

    Oberon Senior Member

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  18. Gondwanaland

    Gondwanaland Senior Member

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    Yes, alarming. We are wating for an appt with hematologist , the sooner I could get is in 10 days. He presents several symptoms of polycythemia. As a matter of fact, this might have been an issue all along causing him fatigue, heat intolerance etc. He has always had high blood volume, but it used to be in the higher half of the range.
     
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  19. Gondwanaland

    Gondwanaland Senior Member

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    Ray Sahelian on Carnosine
     
  20. Gondwanaland

    Gondwanaland Senior Member

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    It just occurred to me that for people with high RBC levels such as my husband ( @picante ) glycation might be beneficial to decrease excess RBCs. I think glycation can induce lysis since his Hb1AC tested at 5.0, which is much too low for someone with MetSyn (very high Triglicerids, Ferritin and basal insulin).

    Chris Masterjohn: Mastering Nutrition Episode 012: What Is Measuring Our Hba1c REALLY Telling Us About Our Blood Glucose and Diabetes Risk?

    Chris Kresser: Why Hemoglobin A1c Is Not a Reliable Marker
     
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