The 12th Invest in ME Conference, Part 1
OverTheHills presents the first article in a series of three about the recent 12th Invest In ME international Conference (IIMEC12) in London.
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A Proven Treatment-Cure for Chronic Epsten Barr Virus

Discussion in 'General Treatment' started by Abdulrahman, Aug 27, 2014.

  1. Abdulrahman

    Abdulrahman

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    Hi SOC,
    Thanks for the extensive reply you raise many points i will try to answer most:
    1. I did not know that i had CFID [roughly same as ME in UK] until year 2010 because i was confused with an immune damaging event that happened to me before my disease started in 1993. This led me to believe that I did not have CFID. But later with Lab testing proving Mycoplasma Infection, and also CEBV infection lab confirmation, i became 100% sure that i had CFID. This certainly helped to focus my mind and skills on the disease even though it’s a very difficult disease to understand and fight. I had about 75% of the symptoms shown on the CFID scale during the time when my CFID infection was strongest from 1993 to year 2000.
    2. You say that many others have known and tried the supplements-herbs before in the past but with no success or cure.......Are you implying that a haphazard program which uses a few of the supplements, in unknown dosages that are mostly incorrect and not studied carefully, is equal to an organized program that uses Herpes Family specific herbal extracts and natural chemicals such as Vitamin-D3 at Molar concentrations which achieve high success at inhibiting virus growth in laboratory conditions? Please, let us be logical and scientific. There is no comparison.
    3. "All herpes class viruses establish life-long latent infections, which can reactivate when the immune system is compromised. You cannot eliminate them from the body with any medication or supplement. The best you can do is push them back into long-term latency." This one is your best point and I agree that the evidence shows that Herpes family viral infections may be driven back into latency but never go away completely. But I think that the majority of CEBV patients would like to achieve just that so they are not fighting this disease daily. If it comes back a few years later, at least we will already have the tools and experience of sending it right back to where it came from.
    4. EBV versus mutant strain of EBV: I don't agree that it’s not an important issue. Of course it is. To the medical world this is causing major confusion; they keep assuming that CFID patients with CEBV are simply re-living a previous older EBV viral infection, possibly due to immune dysfunction. But this is a weak hypothesis that unfortunately causes them to lose sight that it has nothing to do with their patients previous standard EBV viral infection of their youth....the CEBV is caused by a totally different strain of EBV so it is not a re-infection at all. It’s a new infection with a dangerous, powerful strain of EBV that has far stronger ability in defeating the immune system. Once this is realized it becomes easier to fight and win over the CEBV infection. What can you take home from this point? The more dangerous strains of bacteria and viruses have stronger resistance to the chemicals which can normally kill off the common variety. However if we increase conventional dosages to much higher levels within the safe capacity of the human body to handle such medicines, then at a certain point such hardier infective organisms will die off effectively. It’s also a matter of finding new additional Achilles Heels to these mutant strains…some may die off at relatively low doses of a new natural agent.
    Thanks,

    Abdulrahman
     
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  2. adreno

    adreno PR activist

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    A "proven cure" are strong words, but it is certainly not impossible that a combination of "natural" or herbal compounds can be just as effective (or even more effective) than pharmaceutical antivirals. Whether this will provide a cure for ME/CFS is another matter. Since we still do not know what causes ME/CFS it is difficult to speculate about a cure at this point. One thing is certain though, not everyone will be able to handle such a herbal protocol that can carry many side effects because of the hundreds of chemical effects of the compounds.
     
  3. SDSue

    SDSue Southeast

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    Wow. Three months and a few supplements to a cure. While I'm happy for those who get better, this is the kind of stuff that makes the rest of us look like idiots at best, and victims who love to be ill at worst. :bang-head:

    @barbc56 - good article (especially for a psychologist!)
     
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  4. Abdulrahman

    Abdulrahman

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    Hi GlobalPilot,

    Here is another cure story for Chronic Eppstein Barr Virus at CEBV.Org:

    http://www.cebv.org/forum/index.php?topic=1912.0

    Re: CURE
    Reply #6 on:
    March 07, 2012, 06:29:08 PM

    I have been cured since 2010. I was sick starting about 11 years ago with extreme mold exposures. I couldn't get a diagnosis or find the right dr for years. Then I was diagnosed with both EBV and Clamydia Pnuemonia (CPn) in 2007 and started treatment.

    My Dr first built up my immune system with vitamins and supplements, and later prescribed Valtrex (and combo antibiotics for the CPn) which I took for around 1 1/2 years. Some supplements I took at various times to boost immune function, increase energy, antioxidant levels, methylation cycle: NADH, SAM-e, CoQ10, B12, D3, A-K vitamins, folate, gammaglobulin, iodine, zinc, digestive enzymes, lauracidin, thyroidine T3 for low thyroid, etc.
    I was also researching and trying dozens of over the counter antiviral, antimicrobial herbal I could on my own. The antiviral combination of Inosine/DMAE and L-Arginine helped me a lot, similar to the prescription med Immunovir. I also took Chrisholm labs combination transfer factor for EBV/CPn. Laracidin, Cat's Claw, Astragalus, Selenium are antivirals.
    I also tested positive for lead and mercury then took heavy metal chelators, and also had 6 silver/mercury amalgam tooth fillings removed. Later I did a biofilm removal. About three years ago I was well enough to try Bikram Yoga, which helped.

    All these things helped incrementally. My antibody titers for both CPn and EBV where still high after a year of taking antibiotics and Valtrex. Its possible that heavy metals impaired my immune system allowing them to persist. Another theory is heavy metals bind with lipids, proteins, bacteria and virus' forming a bio-film (mucus) for protection, evading antivirals and natural killer cells. Eventually they spread and burden cause a cascading number of symptoms. Breaking down the biofilm allows the bacteria/virus to be killed.

    Two years ago my EBV and CPn antibody titers were negative for current infection.
    « Last Edit: March 10, 2012, 05:55:34 PM by dsg »
     
  5. barbc56

    barbc56 Senior Member

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    Absolutely!

    However, there are many limitations to a one subject or anecdotal evidence. You have to go beyond that and apply scientific evidence. Anecdotal evidence may generate a hypothesis but until there is further scientific study, you can't say definitively that there's proof that a treatment is effective.

    Barb
     
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  6. SOC

    SOC

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    Excellent points, @barbc56.

    In this case, evidence is not massive (far from it) and other causal factors have not be removed (at all).
     
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  7. Gingergrrl

    Gingergrrl Senior Member

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    I am immediately skeptical whenever I hear the word "Cure" vs. someone posting about a treatment protocol that has worked for them. If I end up improving from Famvir and all the supplements and various treatments I am doing, I promise I will never use the word "Cure!" The best I can hope for is an improvement in functioning, to feel better, and to get back some form of a normal life.

    If that should happen some day, God willing, I will post about the protocol that helped me but will never claim that it is a "Cure" that can help everyone as we are all different people. I have learned on here we all have different genes and SNP's and viruses and symptoms so there cannot be one "Cure" for everyone. I think the best we can hope for is a recovery of major symptoms or some kind of remission. But I would always tread lightly that the remission could reverse itself at any time, if it even occurs.
     
  8. Charles555nc

    Charles555nc Senior Member

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    Sulphur intolerance is a sign of molybdenum deficiency. It also is the only mineral that will detox certain yeast poisons, which are common in the immuno-supressed. You should try it.

    Fasting and edta/dmsa chelation will strip biofilms and make drugs easier to take- my experience anyway.
     
    Last edited: Aug 31, 2014
  9. Charles555nc

    Charles555nc Senior Member

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    I am not sure about the massive vitamin D levels, 20,000 I think you said?....I take 2000 ius and see immediate improvement, but isnt vitamin D a neural steriod, so like most steriods, wont it become immuno supressive at huge doses? I have tried huge doses in the short term, and didnt notice much more than what I noticed at 2000iu.

    Maybe I should try the high dose again...
     
  10. Abdulrahman

    Abdulrahman

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    Excellent Question Charles,

    Please remember that the goal here is not to meet the minimum RDA of Vitamin D. It is not a matter of finding the adequate amount of Vitamin D that the body needs to survive. Its kind of like saying, will two glasses of fluid a day keep me alive...well yes but that is very unhealthy in the long run.

    So then the goal here is to consume enough Vitamin D3 [ never use the older Useless Vitamin D2] so thats it's chemical concentration in the body fluids and cellullar tissues which absorb the blood fluids, is enough to be at toxic levels for the Chronic Epstein Barr Virus. If the quantity only gives the EBV virus a headache, then you and i lost the game, we wasted our time because we do not want 50% eradication we need 99% eradication at least and the remainder will be taken care of by the immune system..

    So to answer the question directly: Can we take 20,000 IU daily Vitamin D3 as Adults for long periods of time?

    Yes, a 6 month stretch at this daily intake is perfectly acceptable. At any rate, do take Vitamin D blood level tests if you like every three months, just to ensure you don't exceed limit levels. Please research this issue on Google you will find many sources discussing maximal levels which do not harm health. Please note that if you are fair skinned and work outdoors for 4 hours or more daily with say 25% body skin exposure to direct sunlight, then you do not need supplementation because your body will be manufacturing above 70,000 IU daily...asuming you had adequate organic Calcium intake daily. Vitamin D3 that is manufactured in the skin cells is manufactured using adequate Calcium in your bloodstream.

    New Added Note: The above applies to a person of bodyweight above 200 pounds. If below 170 pounds then 15,000 IU Vitamin D-3 taken daily is sufficient based upon others expereince. Of course, its good to make blood tests to check Vitamin-D levels every two months and adjust dosage if needed.

    A very basic article on the subject:

    http://health.howstuffworks.com/wel...-supplements/how-much-vitamin-d-from-sun1.htm
     
    Last edited: Sep 3, 2014
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  11. Abdulrahman

    Abdulrahman

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  12. Iquitos

    Iquitos Senior Member

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  13. Kina

    Kina Admin Support Staff

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    @Abdulrahman said:

    The definition of anecdotal is something that is story-like or something that is based on stories and retellings, not based on provable facts.

    The 'fact' that one is born is not an anecdotal statement. You can find their birth certificate. find hospital records. We are not all anecdotal and using the words 'my dear' smacks of condescension. When somebody says they have been cured of something like chronic EBV that is an anecdotal statement without accompanying evidence. We have to rely on your words and your words alone to make any kind of judgement. Now if you produced before and after documentation of blood-work that would show some hard facts that make your comments less anecdotal.

    This article has nothing to do with 'Chronic Fatigue Recovery' -- its seems to be about the benefits of Vitamin D. If one were fatigued from a vitamin D deficiency then they would have a diagnosis of Vitamin D deficiency.

    Chronic fatigue is not the same as CFS. Living a modern life can induce a condition of fatigue that is chronic. This is not a website for people who are merely fatigued. Please refer to either the ICC or CCC to get a sense of what the forums are all about.

    What works for one persons may have no effect on the next. Please realize this. We have many people coming to Phoenix Rising pushing so called cures. This is not a website for Chronic Epstein Barr infection even though ME and Chronic EBV could certainly occur together. Do you think they are one and the same?

    You might want to pay attention to our rules -- please read here RE: Rule 5: No medical advice

    Thank you.
     
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  14. Sushi

    Sushi Moderator and Senior Member Albuquerque

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    Please note: Most doctors only monitor Vit D3 25. Some ME/CFS researchers have tested both Vit D 25 and Vit D 1,25 in this patient population (ME/CFS patients) and found that many have low D 25 and high 1,25 (some type of conversion problem--more science than I know!).

    High intake of supplemental D3 can raise Vit D 1,25 to dangerous levels (associated rise in calcium and inflammation). So if I were to supplement at such high levels I would want to be monitoring Vit D 1,25 regularly.

    Sushi
     
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  15. barbc56

    barbc56 Senior Member

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    Too much Vitamin D can be harmful. There is a condition called Vitamin D toxicity.

    Also, what @Sushi said about vitamin D testing and whether it's a true indication if you have tp much Vitamin D in your blood which is addressed in this article.

    Plus,
    http://www.vitamindcouncil.org/about-vitamin-d/am-i-getting-too-much-vitamin-d/#

    Other harmful effects.

    http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/260147.php

    Barb
     
  16. Abdulrahman

    Abdulrahman

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    Kina,

    That was my mistake; it is good you pointed it out. Here is the correct link to the Chronic Fatigue Patient Major Improvement Story:
    http://www.reddit.com/r/cfs/comments/185ddg/ive_mostly_beat_chronic_fatigue_sharing_whats/

    On the subject of Anecdotal vs. Facts, this is a complicated issue. To consider that everything presented as Factual by Medical or Governmental organizations is true, can lead people to poor health. Why: Because "facts" can be sold as facts when they are merely unproven assumptions, or falsely proven. The best example would be to study the standard Industry Cancer Treatments advocated and supported by "Facts" using Chemotherapy and or/Radiation treatments, with the actual results on patients. The use of the word "successful cancer treatment" is a sham and the false "cured" statistics used are worse than Anecdotal. When 75% of all Chemotherapy patients die within the next few years as a complication of the Chemotherapy treatment or Radiation, and the Medical Oncologists then hide the evidence by attributing organ failures such as Kidneys and other major health incidents to other causes, then these are not facts, they are lying statistics. This is then called Junk Science.

    On the issue of our birth being Anecdotal or not, I have a true story. Way back when i was 11 years old the parents of a young, sweet and pleasant fellow female student told her the truth. One day she came to school crying and in deep emotional unhappiness. We found out that she learned after living 11 years with her family, that she was actually an adopted child. Before that time she just took it as a fact that these were her birth parents, when actually it turned out to be Anecdotal. It was a sad story to those of us who knew her and i hope she is happy in her life today.

    So this is why i said to the person who questioned my story [without any evidence that it was wrong] that we are all Anecdotal, you never know when the facts come out differently to what you assumed was solid information.

    In answer to your question on Chronic Fatigue and CEBV: Research studies have shown that 90% of all Chronic Fatigue CFID patients that are medically tested show at least one Herpes Family Infections active infection. This fact means that CEBV, CMV, HHIV-6 or their combinations are one of the major causes of our disease. Is this the full story? No.

    The second major cause of our CFID is infection with dangerous hardy strains of Bacteria such as Mycoplasma and other types such as in Lyme Borregia infections. I had Mycoplasma Pneumonia in addition to my CEBV and getting 100% cured of that 16 year Mycoplasma infection raised me to a 50% cured condition of CFID...but not 100%. Applying a natural program as explained before led to reaching 95% cured stage. However i have not yet applied the comprehensive CEBV cure method shown at CureZone I am waiting for my ordered supplements to arrive :). I will keep this site informed of my progress.

    The third cause of disease in some CFID patients, but not a majority, are severe Fungal infections as a co-infection to the above infections and parasite infections of the intestines. Note: I do not consider this third cause alone as leading to CFID, it must be in concert with the first or second cause to lead the body to deteriorate to the extent of CFID disease. Now, all the symptoms found in CFID pateints such as a defective immune system, frequent respiratory infections, defective Adrenal responce, cognitive abnormalities, hormone imbalance, liver function deficiencies, defective sleep patterns/quality, poor cellular energy, and other issues are all a seconadry result of the original infections.

    Thank you,
    Abdulrahman
     
    Last edited: Sep 2, 2014
  17. Abdulrahman

    Abdulrahman

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    Barbara,

    Good comments, i was expecting these. Vitamin D Usage:

    I did take 20,000 units Vitamin D-3 using 4 x 5000 IU tablets from GNC. This was in summer of 2011. It worked very well alone, and this was for a three month period. But it was not enough to completely eradicate the CEBV virus.

    However i have learned from those who succeeded in curing themselves and those who have more knowledge or medical insight, and reached the conclusion that the serious viral infections we have can be defeated with a lot of hard work and correct treatment program. And it can be done at home. With regard to Vitamin D-3 safety yes its best to get very high doses daily using direct sunlight if the CFID patient can acheive that.

    However, when not acheivable, the patient is between a rock and a hard place...should he live with this dangerous Epsten Barr or CMVvirus for the coming years or should he take a natural Chemotherapy that includes Vitamin D-3 tablets at high doses to wipe out the virus permanently?
    Yes there are negatives but this applies to any medicine you purchase through prescription or OTC. I won't go into how many people have killed themselves just by drinking or using a "Food" such as Alcohol. So lets remember thatt side efects can occcur from many substances we ingest. Its a matter of managing our intake to ensure that the medical dosage we are taking is sufficient to acheive the desired medicaleffect without damaging our body. The viruses know that too, they would love that you take small doses so that they can live forever in our bodies:).

    Abdulrahman
     
  18. barbc56

    barbc56 Senior Member

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  19. Mij

    Mij Senior Member

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    @Abdulrahman I'm curious to know if you ever had your vitamin D levels monitored when you took those high doses? When I took over 3000iu/daily for 6 months my 25HYDR levels went up to 144(ref 25-200) and my 1-25DIHY went to 153(ref 40-150). I am within mid range when I supplement with 2000iu/day. Vitamin D supplmentation does modulate the immune system but it can also cause dangerous harm if taken in high doses as other members have pointed out.
     
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  20. IreneF

    IreneF Senior Member

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    I got rid of my M. pneumoniae infection with clarithromycin. (I have before and after blood tests.) I don't feel significantly better.

    A fair-skinned person (e.g. yours truly) who spent fours hours in the sun would be painfully sunburned. I've gotten a burn in 20 min. Both my parents had skin cancer. Thanks but no thanks.
     
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