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ME/CFS and the Magic of the Canine Factor
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A Plant Based Diet Is The Gold Standard For Me And My Health

Discussion in 'General ME/CFS Discussion' started by golden, Jan 28, 2014.

  1. golden

    golden Senior Member

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    I know that a plant based diet is the very best for me.

    Because I am not 200% super fit , it seems this leaves me open to Medical professionals and Naturopaths trying to FORCE meat onto me .

    There are several psychological techniques which have been used. Some rather subtle.

    I am trying to clear their imprints from my psyche now because whether we choose to be paleo, vegetarian, raw , we need to feel like its the best.

    I understand the potential for deluding ourselves about our diet. However I am on a wide variety, balanced diet that is right for me.

    http://www.care2.com/greenliving/me...ly-alter-gut-bacteria-cause-inflammation.html

    This is a new study which links consumption of meat and dairy to negative health.

    I find i am in need of a reminder. I am not really sure where this has come from either.
    justy and Plum like this.
  2. WoolPippi

    WoolPippi Senior Member

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    Wear a leafy thing on your revers/breast/cuff?
    Just to remind yourself. And to celebrate, because you know plants work for you. Yay!

    Whenever a professional starts talking meat throw your hands in the air. (knee jerk defense action; blocking their energy and a way to insert a time out to gather your thoughts)
    Then you'll see your leaf, remind yourself, take a breath and you can smile and say "thank you but no. Is there a veggie way to reach the same goal?"

    It's wonderful when you feel what your body wants!

    (I love veggies but my intestines don't want them at the moment... Still, plants make me happy and connected to the earth. So I eat bittercress from the ground on my daily walks, just a few little bits :) I believe plants that grow in the same area as me resonate with the body, because we share the same living conditions.) (I don't want to argue with anyone about this, it's just what I feel)

    (I myself wear a rock on my finger to remind me how important mountains and their time spans are to me. And to take my daily salt and minerals.) (yay to me, too!)

    your link features processed meats and cheese (which is also processed, especially when the milk is pasteurized). So I'm not surprised that taxed their bodies. Salami? Hamburger? Tsss. Wouldn't touch them and I eat the total opposite from you (a fat based, meaty diet), which is what my body wants.
    I think they are erroneous in upscaling their findings to condemn all meat-eating. Which is why they use "might" and "could".

    But why are we talking about this? Do you want some arguments to throw back at professionals who try to convert you? (I can help think of a few but it will take your energy to try and discuss with these people. They probably won't listen or learn from you...)
    Or will it be just enough to recognize their manipulations and politely decline and ask for a plant based solution? You know what you want, you know what you celebrate!
    golden likes this.
  3. MeSci

    MeSci ME/CFS since 1995; activity level 6

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    I've only really had serious pressure to abandon my vegan diet when in hospital with liver and kidney failure after a massive overdose. I was in a liver and kidney ward where doctors appeared to possess a rather medieval belief that liver and kidney were needed to heal the liver and kidney!

    I resisted resolutely, even when close to tears from hunger due to missing meals when out of the ward having dialysis, and having had no food saved for me despite my request.

    I really thought that I had severely damaged myself for life with the overdose.

    But guess what - I recovered, apparently completely, and fast! The doctors seemed surprised as well as me.

    Admittedly I was 'consuming' blood in the form of transfusions, but no animal products had passed my lips. :)
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  4. golden

    golden Senior Member

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    :)


    I don't know woolpippi.

    I have yet to work it out.

    Its not a clear cut issue.

    I am looking to get that feeling back again of celebration.
  5. golden

    golden Senior Member

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    :)

    http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/vegetarian-patient-dot-87-fed-223456

    Yes, here an 87 year old life long vegetarian was fed meat for two weeks during a Hospital stay. Apparently unconcerned at family protest.
  6. golden

    golden Senior Member

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    I think its a combination problem.

    I do believe that diet is a strong factor in health. So it is appropriate for health professionals to probe this area.

    In my personal cases, this has been unsolicited advice . It has been assumed that I know nothing about nutrition or my bodies needs as a blanket philosophy has been rolled out or rolled over me.

    Since I am flexible, I have listened. But have not let go :( My fault then.

    The M.E. Illness itself seems to have an additional pressure linked to eating meat in that there is apparently something particularly wrong with M.E. People that they have to eat meat.


    There was an Ayruvedic Doctor who took my pulses and within that philosophy said I was most suited to a Vegetarian diet.

    That just was the 'outside' confirming what the 'inside' knew.

    When the two are in conflict its using up energy.


    My inner Doctor should always be superior to any outer one. This must be what I am struggling with.


    I was told by my Naturopath that one of her M.E. Clients started eating meat and within one week she was fully recovered.

    What she didn't tell me , but I discovered through a series of serendipitous events was that another M.E. Client followed all of her advice and executee all of her suggested changes and 18 months later was worse off.

    He felt strong enough about it to make a complaint about it since his prime purpose for being there was for the perrin technique. Perrin advocates a balanced diet only.




    I definately don't have a natural instinct in me to want to kill animals. The exact opposite. And I feed my animals mostly raw meaty bone diet so its not denial I don't think. This makes me feel I am supposed to be plant based.

    I was noticing recently Ghandi. He in fact started eating meat as he thought at one point it was superior. Possibly then went to the other extreme. But there are intense spiritual practice that go on.

    I definately don't want to feel superior in a diet ...I just don't want to feel inferior about it....

    I have also been told by a professional The Dalai Lama eats meat.
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  7. MeSci

    MeSci ME/CFS since 1995; activity level 6

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    Don't be pressurised. What other people eat and advocate is their issue, not yours. I feel completely at home with being vegan. Other people may say wrong and stupid things, some may mock me, some may try to persuade me to stop being vegan, but it doesn't influence how I feel about my choice. I've been vegan for over 30 years and am very positive about it. I have the date I went vegan in my diary and on my calendar. Next month it will be 31 years! :)

    An ME sufferer who reckoned she was quite an expert told me not to be vegan if I wanted to get well. She failed to answer the actual questions I had asked her (e.g. supplements, and whether she was well) and instead chosen to give me this unsolicited advice. I treated it as I would any such advice - ignored it.

    I've spent a lot of time reading up on nutrition over the years, and am in contact with quite a lot of other vegans. We come across a lot of rubbish talked about veganism and vegans, but our numbers are increasing.

    So we could feel proud of being in the vanguard! No need to follow - be a leader!
    justy, WoolPippi and golden like this.
  8. MeSci

    MeSci ME/CFS since 1995; activity level 6

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    Animals are treated with such casual indifference, as though they are commodities. :( There was a case of a Hindu woman being given a bovine graft without being told its origin. :aghhh:

    But I recount with hilarity the occasion when a hospital caterer told me that the vegan choice selected for me that day was...Halal lamb! :lol:

    When I pointed out that meat was definitely not vegan o_O and that Halal was not the same as vegan, she seemed quite put out, as though I was being awkward!

    The positive outcome should be that she learned something that day.
    golden likes this.
  9. lansbergen

    lansbergen Senior Member

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    @MeSci You are a vegan and I am a meatlover. Nonetheles we both noticed abdominal wall improvement. I wonder what is the common denominator, I only use an immunemodulator and try not to overdo. I am convinced the abdominal wall improvement is part of the overall improvement. What do you think?
  10. MeSci

    MeSci ME/CFS since 1995; activity level 6

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    Low-carb/palaeo? It's a big question, and we will all have genetic differences that influence which foods are best for us.

    By abdominal wall I guess you are talking about leaky gut? I think that the crucial thing about leaky-gut diets is that they cut out foods that cause problems, and they can be plant-or-meat-based. The main foods that various people seem to get leaky gut from seem to be gluten, dairy and oxalates, I think.
  11. lansbergen

    lansbergen Senior Member

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    No. I mean belly wall. It is difficult to find the right word in a foreign language. It feels like the belly muscles are in better shape and my waist size dropped by at least 10 cm. I have reason to beleive the gut wall is less thick now too from low right to upper left. The left part from there downwards has started but still runs behind.
    I still eat whatever I feel like. So in my case eliminating food products can not be the cause of the improvement. Must be something else.
  12. golden

    golden Senior Member

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    When I was a baby - I was refusing meat.

    The Doctor told my Mother to feed me Milky Bars and I thrived on them lol.

    I did start eating meat - but I think I was born a plant based baby. I learned to like the taste of meat and of sucking the salt out of bacon.

    When I was 2 ish I saw the most beautiful Bumble Bee. It was magical. Really magical. I can't express.

    I rushed to relay the beauty to my Mother and she promptly poured a bowl of water over it and killed it.

    I also can't explain the scarring that came from that and the utter sorrow. Also, if I had not pointed it out - it would have lived.

    Years later i allowed an EFT practitioner to work on this. He was an idiot. Worse was the EFT did collapse the memory but left what I would later term as a big black hole.

    I have since recoveree the beauty. But not as it was originally.

    Just in case I am in denial and really should be eating this Paleo diet - I was just trying to unravel any potential conditioning.

    I also never tried to eat insects as a baby either. i truly loved them.

    Its true is it not in the Paleo theory that a lot of insects would have been consumed? Surely if I was hardwired to eat meat I would have been scoffing insects?

    I think I have found Prescribing me a Paleo diet (without even asking for dietry advice) silently and deeply offensive to the very core of my being.

    And its surfacing.

    I know of one Doctor who reported another Doctor to the GMC for prescribing a patient meat.

    Its good if a patient feels a Paleo diet is a balanced diet for them - but its a different ball game when the medical profession start making blanket claims and prescribing the whole human race a Paleo diet.
    Last edited: Jan 29, 2014
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  13. MeSci

    MeSci ME/CFS since 1995; activity level 6

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    I've never heard of this before. I lost fat from my middle and then gained muscle after staying on a (vegan) leaky-gut diet and taking certain supplements. The muscle gain coincided with me taking alpha lipoic acid and acetyl-l-carnitine.
  14. MeSci

    MeSci ME/CFS since 1995; activity level 6

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    That's horrible what your mother did. Presumably she didn't know that bees are essential for pollination, and without them a lot of foods we take for granted would not exist.

    That's a very early memory! I don't have any memories of being a baby. There is stuff here about possible reasons for not having memories of very early childhood.

    Maybe next time someone prescribes/recommends a diet containing animal products you could just point out firmly that you do not, and will not, consume them.

    I would not take nutritional advice from a doctor. Having worked out a vegan version of a palaeo-ish diet that suits me, I think I know better than the vast majority of doctors do what is good for me.
    justy likes this.
  15. golden

    golden Senior Member

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    I have been shocked at what has been happening to Hindus.

    I have experienced a lot of rudeness too for simply requesting a meat free diet. People often pretend they dont understand.

    Its not like a lifestyle choice, why dont i eat grapes instead of apples.
  16. MeSci

    MeSci ME/CFS since 1995; activity level 6

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    Have you looked to see if there are any vegan/veggie contacts or groups in your area? I have felt quite empowered by joining my local group. I don't know if you are well enough for such things, but we go out for meals and have food-shares at people's houses. It's great being with other people and feeling 'normal'! :)
    golden likes this.
  17. WoolPippi

    WoolPippi Senior Member

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    @golden
    I want to tell you I live in a little unkept patch of woods amidst small scale farmlands in my overcrowded country. We purposely do not keep this wood neat. Trees have fallen, mushrooms grow. There's also a patch of meadow here and we've made sure the transition is a gradient, with light and flowering herbs going from the meadow into the wood.
    There are so many bumblebees here now! And bees too. All different kinds.

    Just to show you that not only got bumblebees and their environments lost in the past, but new opportunities for them also arise in the present. We made them a priority when we bought this place.
    (Now ME makes sure I don't mess too much around outside and the insects and animals are grateful for it. Because I'm so silent they come up right up to the window. I even had a squirrel peaking in!)
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  18. MeSci

    MeSci ME/CFS since 1995; activity level 6

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    My garden is a mess but a haven for wildlife! I gets lots of bumblebees and many other things. I encourage plants that are good for insects. Last year my young Buddleia was almost completely devoured by some very pretty caterpillars. As I don't believe in harming anything, I let them. Then they all disappeared, presumably gone to pupate. The Buddleia grew back soon after, better than ever, so maybe it was a kind of symbiotic relationship.
  19. WoolPippi

    WoolPippi Senior Member

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    lovely!

    we have a Cardinals Hat that gets stripped of all its leafs every Spring. it's totally wrapped in butterfly worm silk. The second half of Summer, when the worms have gone and become butterflies, the plant grows a few new leafs and it manages to bare fruit every Fall.

    Buddleia doesn't want to grow here, it's all forest sand soil here. But plenty of geranium and Storks Beak. (I only know the Dutch names and am too tired to look the right ones up.)

    This land used to be from a man with a crane. Whenever he had to shovel something at a client he felt sorry for the trees he was supposed to shovel. So he brought them all home. There're a lot of species here, all grown very big now.

    When we just got this place we sought advice from the Environment Council. Because we were city people and knew nothing about caring for a piece of forest.
    A young man appeared, with tie and jacket. He pointed to all the trees we should fell, because they are not original to these parts of the land. Larix, Pine etc.
    I chased him off. The owls nest in the Larix!

    turns out you you care best for a piece of forest by not interfering and just keeping an eye on things. Some weeds you have to take care of. Some illnesses too. Just make sure there's variety of light and shade. Water. And I sometimes help some plants to spread their seeds.

    Right now I'm fighting against a manure yeasting plant they want to build in the field across the road. That would bring lots of noise, trucks and smell. And danger. I want my piece of forest to be safe and peaceful. No heavy industry here. Luckily I speak a bit of 'lawyer' and 'planning engineer' and have a bit of Asperger to swing with so I have good hopes.
    maryb, golden and MeSci like this.
  20. golden

    golden Senior Member

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    Post lost.

    Please remember my limitations of typing and lack of usual quote features , etc.

    So i can only ramble a point or two here and there.

    :)

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