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a few questions about BH4

Discussion in 'Detox: Methylation; B12; Glutathione; Chelation' started by oh_noes, Dec 28, 2013.

  1. oh_noes

    oh_noes

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    I hope everyone is enjoying the holidays.

    I was wondering if someone could clear something up for me:

    On my UAA/UEE, my tyrosine and tryptophan were in the 84th percentile. Dr Amy's remarks were that I needed B4 to convert them into the relevant neurotransmitters. I just recieved my 24-hour urine catecholamines from my PCP and they're all within normal range, but apparently that just means they exist, not that they're being utilized adequately.

    My questions are:

    1. Is taking BH4 sufficient?
    2. Am I mistaken in that BH4 requires methylfolate in order to work effectively?
    3. As methyfolate appears to be (but please correct me if I'm wrong) contraindicated for those with sulfur and methyl issues (of which it seems I have both), I'm not sure if it wouldn't be counterproductive for me to take. But it seems my body isn't making BH4, so what do I do?
    4. Having got Step 1 of Yasko's protocol on board (which I have, bar the GABA; it makes me even more brain fogged and generally fatigues), and providing BH4 can be utilized without methylfolate, when is the correct time to introduce the BH4?
    5. If methylfolate is OK, which is the preferred form and at what point should it be introduced?

    and last but not least:

    6. does anyone know of a reputable supplier of prescription-free BH4 in the UK or Europe? I can only find suppliers in North America, and even though one of them ships to the UK it is my understanding (I may be mistaken, though) that BH4 shouldn't be shipped abroad because it needs to be highly refrigerated, and that as yet there are no refrigeration methods that would hold up, especially if the item is held at customs.


    If anyone would be kind enough to help, it is much appreciated.

    happy holidays :)
     
  2. Christopher

    Christopher Senior Member

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    ive heard of some people having setbacks with direct b4. you could try lowering ammonia which would free up bh4, like dealing with gut infections. I am lucky enough to have a homebuilt fir sauna that I use that is supposed to increase bh4.
     
    Last edited: Dec 28, 2013
    oh_noes likes this.
  3. oh_noes

    oh_noes

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    Thanks Christopher. I envy you for having a sauna!
    By the way, how would you recommend lowering ammonia? I have a routine of activated charcoal and magnesium citrate flushes, which I alternate with lactulose flushes; one week charcoal, the next lactulose. I've been doing that for two months now and haven't noticed any improvement in my symptoms. Perhaps it's too early to say, or I'm moving too fast, I don't know.
     
  4. Christopher

    Christopher Senior Member

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    see if yucca on an empty stomach helps at all. butyrate may as well. sometimes charcoal helps me, sometimes not at all.
     
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  5. ahmo

    ahmo Senior Member

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    I read recently that yucca can have bad effects on liver. PLEASE SEE CORRECTION IN POST BELOW.
    I stopped yucca due to the 'yuk' factor of the tincture. Switched to amino acid ornithine, along w/ butyrate, lysine. Someone tried lysine after I mentioned it, had a poor reaction, I think excitotoxic. cheers, ahmo
     
    Last edited: Jan 17, 2014
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  6. knackers323

    knackers323 Senior Member

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    What form of yucca is needed? I've seen it from the root, extract, leaf etc.
     
  7. oh_noes

    oh_noes

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    Thanks Christopher and ahmo. I'll have to give the yucca a wide birth as I've read the steroid saponins in it stress the adrenals and liver, and mine are already stressed. Never heard of butyrate but I'll look into it.
     
  8. veronica_corningstone

    veronica_corningstone

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    My understanding is that BH4 is to be taken after the long-route is pretty well implemented. So you'd want to have the short-cut, lithium (if testing shows a need), B12 (showing decent cobalt excretion on the UEE/HMT), and methylfolate all added before adding BH4.

    There's really no getting around using methylfolate if your body needs it. That's why Yasko often recommends options like hydroxyB12 instead of methylB12 for those who are sensitive to methyl donors, to save room to add in the methylfolate.

    I use her methylmate B drops, which allow me to add methylfolate at 70mcg at a time.
     
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  9. Lou

    Lou Senior Member

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    You may find some of the answers on this thread: The Resistant Starch Challenge: Is it the key we've been looking for?

    (Wish I knew how to blue link a thread, anybody tell me?)
     
    oh_noes likes this.
  10. Christopher

    Christopher Senior Member

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    that was me! I have read that arginine is essential for ammonia detoxification as well, so I was thinking that maybe the excess lysine I was taking lowered my arginine levels. Not sure really.
     
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  11. ahmo

    ahmo Senior Member

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    @Christopher, yes, you. I have a memory like a sieve. Interesting re arginine. I just added it to my aminos after reading hip's (I think) post re These supps for anxiety. My body tests very positive for arginine, maybe related to the ammonia detox. cheers, ahmo
     
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  12. oh_noes

    oh_noes

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    @veronica_corningstone I'm taking 1 capsule of the HHI A1298c Liver daily, which contains l-biopterin. I also take royal jelly every other day. I'll PM you about the b12. I've been taking GetB12 (1000%RDA hydroxycobalamin) and the adenosylb12 mega drops (33,333%) daily for about 2 weeks (brain fog makes dates sketchy) and I've only been feeling worse cognitively. I'm not sure if that's to do with the b12 being turned toxic because of the glutathione defecit and/or the lack of lithium (I can't take lithium as it constipates me worse than I already am), and/or the mobilization of my toxic metals. So, I'm concerned it's actually been making me worse... If it's essential for BH4, how do I get it without it exaccerbating these problems (if indeed it is?).

    @Christopher @ahmo That's good to know. I just started l-lysine (two days ago), and I've got ornithine on order too (thanks for the heads up @ahmo !).
     
  13. ahmo

    ahmo Senior Member

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    @oh_noes, @knackers323, @Christopoher, @veronica_corningstone ...

    Re my comments on Yucca and liver: I've gotten mixed up. My recent discovery was that Butterbur, which I was taking for histamines, is hard on liver. Not Yucca, which I stopped because of personal dislike of taste of tincture, and avoidance of starches, it's other form. My Bad. Sorry.:redface:ahmo
     
  14. ahmo

    ahmo Senior Member

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    @Lou,
    If you copy an address link and then paste it in comment, it becomes blue/live. no? ahmo
     
    Lou likes this.
  15. oh_noes

    oh_noes

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    @ahmo @Christopher Just remembered I'm taking A-AKG (@ahmo and you think your brain is like a seive? ;):D). Would this suffice, or does it have to be just l-arginine?
     
  16. ahmo

    ahmo Senior Member

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    Hi oh_noes. This? A-AKG Powder - Arginine Alpha-Ketoglutarate. Nitric Oxide (NO) Inducer and Growth Hormone (GH) Releaser.

    It's probably fine for arginine, tho I have about zero knowledge of arginine. Is Nitric Oxide good? There are many references to it around, I thought it's usually something we're trying to get away from...In other words, I don't know!:confused:
     
  17. oh_noes

    oh_noes

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    That's the one. My UAA/UEE (urine aminos and essential elements) from Yasko revealed a very high need for nitric oxide, and I had read that A-AKG could do that. My uninformed guess (although I could be completely wrong) would be that it depends on your SNPs and whether you're an over or undermethylator. I'm taking it (only at the recommended dose) because I'm low in it, even though addressing the NOS SNP is second to last in Yasko's protocol.
     
  18. ahmo

    ahmo Senior Member

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    Oh. got it. :cat:....any excuse for a bit of color...
     
  19. veronica_corningstone

    veronica_corningstone

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    Ah, I'm sorry, I may have slightly misled you with the BH4 advice...the little bit of BH4 that is in the 1298c and royal jelly should be ok before you have supported the long route with enough B12 and methylfolate. I think you'll want the short and long cuts fairly well supported before moving into the direct BH4, which is a much higher dosage. Dr. Yasko may recommend that based on results of a MAP test.

    That's a tough situation with the lithium. Have you experimented with very low dosages? Perhaps you could take a little B12 with a tiny bit of lithium and slowly work up?
     
  20. Teresa

    Teresa

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    I would like to know if anyone ever actually felt better after taking BH4. My doctor claims it doesn't do any good and that one has to work from another perspective.
     

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